| Author |
Message |
mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Near the branch's tip |
 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| pasQuale wrote: |
| Let's assume in some ancient time indeed there where airships and pilots etc - later they leave or get destroyed and nobody knows anymore how it worked (I would think this was also secret knowledge, only to be shared with initiates). - then the myth kicks in, and it lives on in stories etc. |
I once believed this, but not anymore. It's plausible ofcourse, but if you apply Occam's Razor, then I'd say alien intervention is more unlikely than some other explanation based upon inner explorations, shamanic journeys and unlocking the magical mechanics of the mind (because in the end, that's what Hinduism is about).
| Quote: |
i'm most interested if you can find out the mayan cosmology meaning of pacal votan 
In one of my maya books i read that the pacal votan had the key to unlock the tzolkin - that the glyphs around it where studied by one man and he understood the calendar because of that, after studying long. |
I don't know about that theory, but it surely sounds fascinating! Here's what I meant:
| Quote: |
| The sarcophagus lid depicts a very interesting image. In the center of this image is the figure of Pacal Votan. Extending from Pacal’s umbilicus is a representation of the Sacred Tree, also known as the Tree of Life. Resting at the top of this tree is a quetzal bird which symbolizes the spirit world as well as the origin of the Universe. (see illustration on next page) The Sacred Tree is a key concept in the Mayan understanding. It is closely identified with the Ceiba tree, which is known as yaxche, meaning “first the tree.” The word uahomche symbolizes the cross and means “the tree which awakens.” |
| Quote: |
The ancient Mayan word for tree is te and is symbolized everywhere throughout their culture by the letter T. The symbol T is also identified with the second of the 20 sacred day glyphs and is known as Ik, which represents spirit, wind, or divine breath. The Sacred Tree also represents the Axis Mundi, or Universal Axis. The Axis Mundi is the connection to the spirit world, as well as the connection between Heaven and Earth.
The Sacred Tree plays an important role in Mayan cosmology and astrology. We’ve noted the strong relationship and connection between the Maya and the Milky Way. From their terrestrial perspective, the Sacred Tree was seen as the crossing point of the ecliptic with the band of the Milky Way. The ecliptic is marked by the path of the Sun and the planets. The intersection of the ecliptic and the Milky Way also represents the sacred doorway to the underworld as well as the sacred source and origin of creation. The Quiche Maya of Guatemala referred to this celestial feature as Xibalba be, which means “road to the underworld.” It was also known as the Black Road or the Crossroads. This “road to the underworld” is also closely related to a feature of the Milky Way known as the Dark Rift. The Dark Rift is also known to be the birth canal of the Cosmic Mother. This rift is actually a portion of the Milky Way which appears black because of the dense interstellar dust clouds which obscure visibility in the direction of Galactic Center. For this reason the Galactic Center is invisible to our telescopes.
Lord Pacal is seen on the sarcophagus lid with the Sacred Tree. The significance of this imagery is quite astonishing. The Mayan word for Lord is Ahau, which also means Sun. The relevant connection between the Sun, the Sacred Tree, and the Mayan Calendar is shockingly simple. Researchers have discovered that the end of the Mayan Long Count coincides with a rare alignment between the Earth, the Sun, and the Galaxy. Specifically, the alignment we are talking about occurs when the winter solstice Sun of the year 2012 AD conjuncts the Sacred Tree (formed by the intersection of the ecliptic and the Milky Way).
To be more precise, the solstice Sun aligns with the ecliptic and the galactic equator, which is the imaginary line that marks the center of the Milky Way band. Presently, the Milky Way crosses the ecliptic through the constellation of Sagittarius, which also happens to be the direction of Galactic Center. In other words, on the morning of Dec 12, 2012, we will witness the heliacal rising of the Galactic Center with the winter solstice Sun as they emerge together over the Eastern horizon. This convergence is determined by precession. It should be noted that the Sun conjuncts the Sacred Tree on December 3, 755 AD; however, precession has caused the conjunction date to approach the winter solstice. |
Though off-topic, here's some additional info, found on the same site:
| Quote: |
Indeed, this alignment has been coming together very slowly over thousands and thousands of years. The Maya obviously knew about the precession, as it is automatically accounted for in the Tzolkin which can be expanded to perfectly fit the 26000 tun cycle of the Earth. It is quite amazing indeed to consider that the Mayan astronomers knew the exact date the winter solstice would eclipse the Galactic Center, a event some 2000 years in the future from the approximate time the Long Count was inaugurated. This particular winter solstice represents more than the birth of new solar year. The event is of such significance that it was considered by the Maya to be the birth, not only of new Great Cycle World Age, but of a whole new Grand 26000 tun Precessional Age.
In the context of interesting physical phenomena and alignments, there are several other novel occurrences which we can expect during the year 2012. One will be a very rare solar transit of Venus. That is, on June 5-6, 2012, the planet Venus will pass directly in front of the Sun. Transits of this type occur in pairs every 120 years or so. The next Venus transit will occur on June 8, 2004; however this will only be a partial transit, passing through the lower portion of the solar disk. The Venus transit in 2012 will occur directly through the center of the sun over a period of about eight hours. Also in 2012, Venus will conjunct with Alcyone, which is the central star of the Pleiades system, also known as the Seven Sisters.
The Pleiades were an important aspect of the Mayan Civilization. Coincidentally, there is a star in the Pleiades known as Maia. To add to the growing list of novel occurrences, there will be two solar eclipses in 2012. During the first eclipse, which will occur on May 20, the Sun and moon will conjunct the Pleiades. The second eclipse, which will occur on November 13, marks a conjunction between the Sun, the moon, the constellation Serpens, or the serpent. Interestingly, the Pleiades was often associated with the rattle of a snake. The Mayan word for rattle is tzab, and is the same word used for the Pleiades cluster. These two eclipses which will occur in 2012 physically reflect the cosmic orobouros, which is the primordial serpent of eternity represented as a snake swallowing it’s own tail.
In the area of Chichen Itza, the Classic Maya constructed the Pyramid of Kukulkan. This magnificent structure was specially designed so that every year, on the spring equinox, the sun creates a shadow along the steps of the pyramid which gives the illusion of a huge serpent descending from the sky. This event commemorates the prophetic return of Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl, the Plumed Serpent. The Pyramid also symbolizes the zenith passage of the sun which takes place over Chichen Itza on May 20, exactly 60 days after the spring equinox. On May 20, 2012, the zenith passage of the sun coincides with a solar eclipse which conjuncts the Pleiades, as mentioned above. This day on the Tzolkin is 10 Chicchan, which means serpent. These highlights concerning physical events which will occur in 2012 indicate the concrescence of novelty, a factor which signals the forthcoming ascension of the entire Earth, including the human race, into higher-dimensional levels of synchronic resonance. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Qu
Light
Age: 40
Posts: 10398
Joined: 05 May 2002
Last Visit: 21 May 2013
Location: behind the mirror ;-) |
| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mystic wrote: |
I once believed this, but not anymore. It's plausible ofcourse, but if you apply Occam's Razor, then I'd say alien intervention is more unlikely than some other explanation based upon inner explorations, shamanic journeys and unlocking the magical mechanics of the mind (because in the end, that's what Hinduism is about). |
i'm not saying that it is aliens that flew those planes. Who knows how advanced human civilization was before it was destroyed and we picked up the pieces again?
what is occam's razor?
thanks for those quotes mystic  what site was that from? (want to read more )
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Near the branch's tip |
| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pasQuale wrote: |
| i'm not saying that it is aliens that flew those planes. Who knows how advanced human civilization was before it was destroyed and we picked up the pieces again? |
I agree if you say that scientists are highly underestimating the capabilities and achievements of ancient civilizations. But the idea that at some point in a far history, people developped airplanes and alike, sounds so contradictory to the mechanisms of evolution; especially given the fact that we supposedly forgot about the technologies afterwards, lost our rational abilities and dwelled back near the realms of magic and myth. Imo that's not how the mind works. Once you gain access to the rational mind, it leaves an imprint, and the more people who enter it, the easier it gets for other people to enter it. If some unidentified civilization literally developped the skills as supposedly written in the Vedic literature, then it must have required quite some rational talent to design it all. I mean, if you take the Vedas literally, then it's obvious that their technology easily surpasses ours today. So quite a lot of people must have developped a rational mind. The assumption that this rationality was lost together with the technology can simply not be true. You can't erase mental depth in the same way as you can wipe out technological depth. Once the mental path is walked, its imprints, made by all the footsteps of our predecessors, remain there for many many generations to come.
| Quote: |
| what is occam's razor? |
It's a principle which says that in case you have several possible explanation, then the simplest explanation is the best. See Wikipedia for instance for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
| Quote: |
| thanks for those quotes mystic what site was that from? (want to read more ) |
http://www.gaianxaos.com/GalacticMayanFinalMission.htm
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Nameless One
Dying Alive
Age: 25
Posts: 1244
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Last Visit: 25 Sep 2012
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of Mayans and stuff, I once read in a book of a doorway with many names carved on it, many of which were gods (mostly elemental gods). But 3 of them were different, they were: "[Name], guardian of ammunition", "[Name], explosives and rockets expert", and another one I can't remember, I think it had to do with explosives or modern weaponry. A little off-topic but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Btw, it is stated that the knowledge about vimanas was orally passed on and known by few select people. If they died, they brough with them all the stuff. South America's ancient civilizations have so many mysteries because the few remaining priests who possessed knowledge got killed after the conquest. Knowledge can be lost imo, but not in a single day. But I think we won't know for sure until we develop time machines.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qu
Light
Age: 40
Posts: 10398
Joined: 05 May 2002
Last Visit: 21 May 2013
Location: behind the mirror ;-) |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mystic wrote: |
I agree if you say that scientists are highly underestimating the capabilities and achievements of ancient civilizations. But the idea that at some point in a far history, people developped airplanes and alike, sounds so contradictory to the mechanisms of evolution; especially given the fact that we supposedly forgot about the technologies afterwards, lost our rational abilities and dwelled back near the realms of magic and myth. Imo that's not how the mind works. Once you gain access to the rational mind, it leaves an imprint, and the more people who enter it, the easier it gets for other people to enter it. If some unidentified civilization literally developped the skills as supposedly written in the Vedic literature, then it must have required quite some rational talent to design it all. I mean, if you take the Vedas literally, then it's obvious that their technology easily surpasses ours today. So quite a lot of people must have developped a rational mind. The assumption that this rationality was lost together with the technology can simply not be true. You can't erase mental depth in the same way as you can wipe out technological depth. Once the mental path is walked, its imprints, made by all the footsteps of our predecessors, remain there for many many generations to come.
|
I disagree. Do you know how to build a spaceshuttle? Can you fly one? Imagine if a huge disaster destroys almost all civilization. You will tell your children that before the disaster you would have 'internet' and 'space shuttles'. You describe it. Your children tell this to their children, etc etc, until somebody writes those tales down. Now technology has become myth. But before the myth it has been real.
| Quote: |
what is occam's razor?
It's a principle which says that in case you have several possible explanation, then the simplest explanation is the best. See Wikipedia for instance for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
|
well, if i use occam's razor, the simplest explanation for the vimana's is IMO that they have actually existed
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mystic
Dream Templar
Posts: 2918
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Near the branch's tip |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pasQuale wrote: |
| Imagine if a huge disaster destroys almost all civilization. You will tell your children that before the disaster you would have 'internet' and 'space shuttles'. You describe it. Your children tell this to their children, etc etc, until somebody writes those tales down. Now technology has become myth. But before the myth it has been real. |
I'd agree if you were talking about the technology which became a myth. But a rational mind cannot be exterminated by a disaster. I don't know how much you believe in karma, but once you plant a karmic trace within the rational realm, it will survive there. No physical disaster can wipe them out. In this case, there was probably a whole forest born from these karmic seeds of rationality because you need quite some skill and people to build airships. Even if almost all of that civilization would have been destroyed, the rational mind must have been transferred to the next generations. Even if the old technologies didn't exist anymore and lingered from legend to myth, we must have seen traces of rational thought existing long after the cataclysm. But we don't see them. In fact, it is generally believed that rational thought only developped during the Middle Ages. So if all this really happened, it must have changed world history enormously, because then rational thought developped thousands of years before history currently shows us. Apart from these mythological texts and some scattered ruins, I don't see any other possible evidence which might suggest of such an event. Furthermore, Hindus usually consider their texts and Gods as metaphors, symbols of deeper wisdoms. They're not seen as some physical truth but as guidelines towards a deeper introspection.
| Quote: |
| well, if i use occam's razor, the simplest explanation for the vimana's is IMO that they have actually existed |
Lol Well, I highly doubt researchers will come to the same conclusion 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
