Hey Explore, was just wondering since you are from Melbourne and all if you have anything to do with the website 2012.com.au. If you haven’t yet been there it has some interesting ideals along with some crazy alien cult stuff but mainly the information that is there is a really awesome perspective on a lot of things.
nacur.
Nice to meet another australian dreamer. It is good to feel the network growing here!
I have come across the 2012.com.au website a few times before. It’s an intriguing site. I am a bit skeptic of some of the info, but I guess the site does have an interesting array of links - and some eye-opening perspectives to share.
Hope to see you around here more often…
NIck
I hadn’t read the entire message that was posted there, but from the lookes of it it seemed like a very insightful read. Perhaps I will bookmark this page and read it at a more convenient time.
As for so many ancient cycles pointing at that same date, that is astonishing. There could be several things that the year 2012 could possibly represent…positive or negative.
Explorer, Like wise to meet another dreamer also, this lucid dreaming is a new experience for me but I like the positive vibes so far.
Yeah, I agree about 2012, there is a lot of information there that is an interesting outlet. There is a very alien cultish tone that fabricates and uses alot of facts for a different purpose.
Nathan
Oh well, if the Skies turn Red, we’ll still have one year to get the hell out of Dodge. 
There’s always something funny with apocalyptic and catastrophic dates it’s that they’re placed not too close in time so as to not be treated as a fool when the date pass and nothing happens and not too far so people get interested in it in the contrary with some real threats like climate change which will concern only our grandchildren, at least according to the mass point of view.
Now with the calendar change, why not live without any calendar. I know it wouldn’t help for accountability but if “We will become the dolphins of the atmosphere” (8D so funny), I assume we won’t care a shit (<- automatic censorship, i love PC) about economy and just live happily in total “synchronicity” 
. Moreover there can be problems with too much synchronicity, as there is with too much of anything.
And maybe not everybody want to live like an ant.
Saying “time is art” seem as false as “time is money” the other way around, why not let time be time:
an ungraspable concept which keeps a bit of mystery instead of categorizing everything in cycles and coincidences.
And as for making the world heaven or hell, I believe it comes from lot of little acts rather than from a big magic miracle summoned by changing my calendar (lmao as I’m writing, sorry if it seems disrespectful). It’s not even romantic, it’s like saving the world by changing my toilet paper, but at least I would save some trees in this proccess 
.
I really hope Im still into LDing when 2012 gets here. I have a feeling something will take place in dreams that night, that is if I can even sleep. I dont know what it will be, maybie just a big shared dream, or maybie our spirit guids will give us a message.
I would like to know if there is a link betwen lucid dreaming and 13-moon calendar. Is there any way to use lucid dreaming to help the human species about that 2012 prophecy??? 
I think that nothing will happen come 2012. All throughout time people made assumptions that the world will end. Everyone thought the apocolypse would happen in the year 1000 AD. And then everyone was worried about Y2K killing us all. Also, If the calender is a year off and it the real date is 2005 right now, then the date to worry about would be 2013.
Also, who says that we didn’t make any other error in the calender along the way. Maybe over the centuries the calender was off by even 25 years; the real date could actually be like 1985. I’m no expert at this though. Besides it just means that the mayan calender is ending, Not the world is ending. Which ancient culture are we supposed to believe anyway. Egyptian, Sumarian, Chinese.
Its just my opinion. I’m a skeptic, and I’ll sleep fine on December 20, 2012.
Death isn’t always the end. 2012 may come within prophecy as recurring events. In a lot of my dreams, I see 6 years from now a comet heading towards Earth. I believe represents something significant.
2012 should be something to look forward to. Look for signs in the world. Look for signs in your dreams upcoming these years. I cannot say more.
Well, it’s either you’ve got a big mistake, or I didn’t properly understand what you were trying to say there.
According to the Judaic calendar, we’re now at the year of 5767.
According to the Georgian calendar, now it’s the year of 2006.
Which means that the Jewish started counting at the year of 3761 B.C. related to the Georgians.
That’s more then 3100. In my opinion, it’s too much deviate to be called just “inaccurate”.
Greetings Alchemist.
Yes there are calendrical cycles which stretch back far before 3100 BC.
The text there is a speech presented by Jose Arguelles - so I can’t be certain of every point, however, I was under the impression that by “history” he is not so much talking about the point, at when different calendar cycles began, as the point at which civilization began to develop…
Inevitably - a hard thing to define. I guess it depends on what you call “Civilisation”.
I wonder - how would you define the beginnings of civilisation? What kind of things would you look for?
Nick
Actually, my definition of “civilization” stretches even further back in history.
I define the point of time in which the humans had forsaken the subsistence method of the “hunter-gatherer” and the colonial (or, in other words, agricultural) contact was made.
Or simply - the point where humans started living in big communities, devoting to the values of communal wealth and growth, settling in one place.
That means - the Neolithic period. And that means - about 12,000 years ago.
Anyhow, the way in which we all live at present stretches way back then 3000 years or so, from any perspective that you might have.
Anyhow, there’s a lot in common between what you said about the Maya and what I know (which is, in fact, a lot,), about the Hebrew culture.
The Old Testament has a wide base of symbolism related to the number 13, and it is repeated constantly throughout the old testament.
Moreover, according to certain flows in Judaism, the messiah is soon to arrive, bringing the apocalypse and the resurrection after a great war.
And that is supposed to happed somewhere about the time that you’ve mentioned.
Scary shit, eh?
Hey there TheAlchemist!
Yes. I resonate with that definition on some level, as well.
I was intrigued that Jose chose to refer to Uruk, as the starting point of civilisation, and have gained some insight as to why. You might wanna read this article, from the BBC, about the world’s “oldest known civilisation”:
bbc.co.uk/history/recent/ira … s_03.shtml
Would you agree that Civilisation might also be more closely linked to the development of higher density living, we are accustomed to today? There’s something else there though too I feel - an attempt to solidify earthly manifestations of a culture’s way of life, and to help it continue down from generation to generation.
Nick
I wouldn’t be as concerned about 2012 as I would be about 2008 which is going to be a rough time for the earth according to the, calendar which maps the evolution of consciousness not the end of the world. but in order for higher levels of awareness to be reached old ways must be tossed aside, not everyone is going to want this to happen and so great suffering will likely ensue. just remember that the same amount of evolution that occured in 1.6 billion years now occurs in 360 days
1999 was the start of the galactic cycle of consciousness, october 2011 starts the universal cycle of consciousness and the same amount of evolution occurs in 20 days.
flow with change without being attached to anything or you will be ripped apart.
Question:
December 21st, 2012 - but where is this time based upon? Its going to be the 21st in Australia about 14 hours before its the 21st in the Americas.
Apocalypses and consciousness shifts are always so vague - I like my doomsday/Eden predictions with Central Standard Time stamped on them
Actually the end date of the Mayan count was first figuired out by the Mayan Daykeepers at Izapa, Mexico. John Major Jenkins writes about it in his book Galactic Alignment.
dartmouth.edu/~izapa/index.html
There use to be a kool website on Jenkins proof, but its down.
The Chinese year is 4705, this year being the Year of the Pig. There are some speculations that the Olmecs created an earlier calendar that the Mayans adopted as their own.
Some of these 1,000 year discrepencies might also have to do with what Barbara Hand Clow talks of as a great Catastrophe that happened to Earth back in the time of the Age of Leo, some 11,500 years ago, in her book Catastrophobia. She states our species have a great fear of catastrophe and apocalypse that we are working out, and perhaps it isn’t even doomsday that we are going to face in 2012, but the healing of what happened to our planet aeons ago. There are also some theories that the Popes added a 1,000 years to the Gregorian calendar and called it the dark ages too, because they wanted to distance themselves from so called pagan calendars.
Jose Arguelles has a great visual on the 13 Baktuns and human history. We are in the 13th Baktun, The Transformation of Matter. He first presented this in his book The Mayan Factor, which is a great read, and came out around the Harmonic Convergence in 1987, and the Dreamspell came out in 1992.
I dont understand something.
‘’ Everything that a society, a culture or a people does is programmed into the calendar.’’
Why is it so important that the more accurate calender comes in to place?
If I’ve read the article right, it is ,in our time, about the dissapereance of the ‘‘time is money’’ era.
But if all the people in the world now would all change there calender into the mayan calender, that wouldnt change a bit? It would still be night and day, people would still find a way to make a new routine in the new calender.
I also think, that we cannot ever breakdown our civilisation that we have build today. If we would want ‘‘time is art’’, we would have to break down every building, every thing that is influential with global warming. No cars, no TV, no traveling with airplanes. We would miss so much, I dont think that people could take the steps to start all over again. We are just too spoiled for our own good in that way.
If we would want to start all over again, a lot of people must die. Maybe thats the use of an semi-apocalypse?
I think it was a great read, but I am very sceptical when it comes to text like this that you find on the internet. It is so easily adjusted by rumours and believes.
If I had the guts to do it, I would get that book from the pope “The Relation of the Things of Yucatan” and see if there is a big difference in this story and the one in that book.
I just had a crazy thought.
So it is really fortunate that 2012 is such a short time away because we have hit an exponential curve. The 9-11 was the puncture in the technosphere that said, “You have reached your limit, you better start rethinking how you are doing things.” We think that this person was responsible or that person was responsible or the al-Queda or the CIA or whoever did it—but the fact is that from a higher point of view that was an inevitable event. It was an inevitable event because the human species had reached the limits of its growth of devouring the biosphere, its natural habitat. A signal was sent then through the civilization to indicate that that moment had come. We could have had any number of reactions at that moment. We could have said, “Wow are we so bad that we caused other people to do that to us?” or “Why did this happen?”
What if the neo-conservatives, al-Queda or another group did this just to give this warning? Or was this another prophecy?
I really dont understand how people could make prophecy’s like that. Im gonna dive into this prophecy thing.
Im not sure, but I guess prophecy’s are made by people making prophecy’s (duh), some will fail and some will be right. If one person makes a lot of prophecy’s and only 3 have come true, then the failed prophecy’s will be forgotten and the prophecy’s that are yet to come will be believed.
This is al a bit confusing. I am going to re think everything.
That was worthwhile xD
Anyways… where do I get a 13 moon 28 day calendar? o.o
I’ll have to alternate between calendars… must keep up with everyone else. 
Time is running out… I need to find something to believe in. -previous phrase contains… random blabber maybe- 
hey Kirby.
that’s funny - your galactic signature (one of the 260 different “kin”)
is Blue Spectral Monkey. The author of the article/presentation you see in the first post - Jose Arguelles - is also a Blue Spectral Monkey.
Anyway…
as to your question regarding the calendar: you can browse the 13 moon calendar me and my friends produced here:
If you’ve got any questions about it, I’m only too happy to help.
nick