Using Lucid dreaming as a topic to get with this girl

i know i should read more of the posts in here but

"You could just let her know how you feel but say that “you want to become friends first” or whatever. Friendship isn’t scary, a relationship often can be. "

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NOOOOOOO

Okay… I will first say that I don’t know much about relationships, but I have my experience, and I have other peopel’s experience… and I have ladder theory which I think tends to be true.

First of all, this is the biggest mistake you can ever make.

Right now neither of you have anything to lose.

If you hold off on your emotions, and she holds off on her emotions, but you two become friends, this puts you in a very bad boat.

I.E. you don’t know what the hell she feels about you, and she probably doesn’t know what the hell you feel about her.

Now whether you like each other or not, you are now friends, you are very worried that if you ask her out, this will jeopardize the freindship if she says no, or she feels the same way.

This leads to the “I don’t want to ruin our friendship” crap… it’s a horrible thing to hear, and it becomes mentality for both sides… chances are, if she likes you SHE ALREADY LIKES YOU… if you wait too long that throws all sorts of mixed signals into the field and complicates things.

It’s best to be upfront about that stuff… for example with me being the shy one, I liked her forever but didn’t know a damn thing about relationships, and she sent mixed signals… when I finally told her (after months) we were already “just friends”

now girls think they can be “just friends” with a guy, even if he likes her… but in reality that just results in much heartbreak/sorrow for the guy, as he wants more… if the girl doesn’t, she is going to end up manipulating him (as he will do outlandish things for her that he wouldnt’ do for just a friend, in attempts to win her over, and waste tons of money on her)

so you basically end up in a relationship where you do all the things people that date do, and you WASTE TONS OF DAMN MONEY, but you don’t get any affection, etc… in return.

I do not know how this applies to a chick that likes a guy, is friends with him, then they decide to become friends due to uncertainty of each others feelings, then when they are friends she likes him a lot but doesn’t know what to say and doesn’t want to jeapordize ending the friendship… but I’d imagine it’s much the same.

Please… the most important thing you can do is not deny your feelings, if you don’t know her very well just say “hey i’d kind of like to maybe get to know you would you like to go _____________ and talk a while?” and then if that goes well… go ahead and play it out for a few more “dates” no more than 3-4 I’d say… if she seems to be opening up, seems to at least like you as a person, that’d be the time to say “i kind of like you” or something… let it be known you like her for more than just someone to talk to… you are interested in more.

If you push it too far (maybe after 2 dates would work) you’re going to end up in a friendship trap where things get screwed up.

laddertheory.com/

everyone should seriously read that, there are exceptions, but not many… relationships are very much biologically and socially predictable… women want status, they want money, and they want support… men have been “providers” for a damn long time.

men on the other hand, just want action, basically…

there are many other wants out there but those two things ultimately sum up the male/female desires, I do believe… aside from just wanting love/companionship, women want financial support… status… security…

and well… just read ladder theory, it is extremely true during the HS days and it’s still largely true in the real world.

I firmly believe that a guy and a girl cannot be friends if the guy likes the girl… it just causes problems… and i don’t know about how it goes on the girl side of things… but.

The goal to a healthy relationship is being upfront and discrete with your feelings, not delaying them… not playing word/mind games… give her a test date or two, if she seems at least mildly interested, tell her how you feel.

Do not play it out for a friendship or things get awkward, confused, and screwed up.

Please do not do that. I can almost guarantee a friendship will not work if you like her and she doesn’t like you… then you end up developing an obsession over her, you love her, you run endless scenarios thruogh your head wondering why she wont’ love you… it tears you apart, you’d kill just to be able to hold her close to you, but she won’t allow that… and why? WHY?

It drives a man mad… it’s not good. If she doesn’t like you and you want to be friends with her you need to find another girl to obsessed with, convince yourself she is ugly, or get a girlfriend.

holy reality, you have some great points (as always) but I don’t think you’re necessarily dead-on with the whole “friendship” thing. True, having it be labeled a “friendship” can make it stressful for the guy who is WAY more into the girl than she is into the him. But by being friends, you KEEP A DOOR OPEN which allows the girl to get to know him better and truly assess her feelings. People change all the time and it is quite possible “being friends” would allow her to go beyond that level. I’m not saying it works out this way every time (and I know it often works out the way you stated), but it still is a possibility and is capable of happening. Especially in Sleepy’s case. This is an extremely shy girl. She most likely has never dated before and feels awkward with that type of thing. Being friends can often disarm a person. Being comfortable first but still knowing how the other person feels might lead to a “relationship” which is the main goal anyway. I’m a girl, so I know how girls think. My ideal “match” is the guy who was first my best friend and then my boyfriend. I think most females are just mushy that way. We want a strong connection and a support base before we invest in anything more.

Sleepy, please tell us how it goes and again, Good Luck!

sno_isulli:
Don’t you think she’ll catch on pretty quick that he’s considering her for more than a friend? It’ll be pretty obvious unless he sends some seriously messed signals. When you were just friends with you current boyfriend didn’t you have even a rough idea that he liked you?

If you’re spending time together, having fun, getting to know someone, with the knowlegde that it could be leading to a relationship, isn’t that just casual dating? Or do you not consider it that until the first move is made and reciprocated?

holy reality:
You make a good point that you shouldn’t try friends first but that site is full of copious amounts of BS. I read the whole thing, and it would have lowered my IQ but he used big words to try to trick us. At least we know the author owns a dictionary.

From the Site:

I’d say he’s a love scorned math science major, with no personality.

Firstoff, I don’t mean for him to act like he ISN’T interested in her, but let her know he is taking it slow for her sake. Of course she would pick up on his true feelings (people are perceptive–God, I hope so!), but by knowing that he cares enough to keep things simple or whatever at first, it may be more of a draw then just him saying, “Yeah, I’m interested in you so let’s start dating, okay?” Secondly, I don’t have a boyfriend but was just saying that best friend THEN boyfriend would be the way I would want things to go. (Call me old-fashioned.)

I agree with what you said about “casual dating” cause that’s what it would be. So I guess it comes down to definition of words: “Friendship” to me could be interpreted as both friendship AND casual dating, it just depends on the context. (Sorry for the confusion.)

Now that I’ve put in WAY more than my two cents, I plan to say goodbye to this thread and hope Sleepy has success with his, er, feat!

I’m going to ask her out to eat after school on tuesday since I’m busy monday. On monday I’m just going to start a convo starting off with asking what her name is(I never did find out since we used fake names in spanish class).

EDIT: maybe monday…if possible

On the subject of shy girls, I have noticed that some think that the best way to send their ‘signals’ is by talking about certain subjects with the boy. Like for example she might tell him that she is single, or that she’s not gay (lol). I guess that’s practical thought.

Once had a conversations with a couple of girls, about a boy they had to spend some time with:

Girl1: Grrr, it’s so annoying, I don’t know what to talk about.
Girl2: Yeah…
Me: Talk about the weather or something?
Girl1: Done that, then what? It’s unbearable.
Me: But, talk about anything. I mean you always talk about stuff all the time…
Girl1: But I can’t talk about anything personal or he would get the wrong idea.
Girl2: Yes, he would.
Me: Ha ha. Ookaay…

damn i have been there man, that is when you know that you two are not the right type for each other, if you cover all the bases and nothing hits off, well either you push it and keep trying and get a lucky subjuect off random…like ugboots orrrrrr you pull back from pushing to much. Unless you are a stalker, wonder why that came to my mind.

Anyway keep us up to date, make sure she doesnt see these posts tho

I wouldn’t recommend that at all! Movies, for shy girls, are too intimidating. A nice coffee at Starbucks is much more origional and nice. You can talk while drinking coffee and she’ll feel more comfortable than sitting silently in a dark room with you watching horror of all horrors 13 going on 30! Do her a favor, save the movies till later on in your relationship

Sleepy: Hey i had this really weird dream that triggered off low-level lucidity last night.
ShyGirl: Cool
Sleepy: I was with you in a chose preferable location and i asked you out, this kinda triggered low-level lucidity because i daren’t actually ask you out even though i want to.
Shygirl: …
Sleepy: Anyways want to * with me sometime?

What would be the chance she is actually a member of this forum? hehe. You should invite her here since she is interested in Lucid Dreaming, she might stumble on this post and realise it’s you. Just a thought

Thats actually a good idea!!!

Before I ask her out to get something to eat, I’ll mention the forums.

Just a thought maybe you shouldn’t mention the forums what with it containing this thread.

What would be really cool is if she did start posting here and came across the thread and offered her own advice. If it all worked out for them, it would be one of the coolest “how we got together” stories.

Are you sure that’s such a good idea? She could probably figure it out without much trouble. Your location says Chicago, and if you mention the forums the same day that this thread says “I’ll mention the forums to this girl I know…”

Danger! Danger!

lol true that.

i wouldnt mention the forums yet, well not at least for a few days when this thread dies after we stop posting otherwise i am sure she will find it lol. but hey, just have to be carful how forward you are with the shy ones, just play it smooth and into what they like and you will be fine, be too strong though and she will go running. what does she do with her spare time anywayz?

Well yes but the problem therein lies that women expect guys to make the first move, but if a guy is ‘just friends’ with a girl, he gets rather confused… and so does the girl… and plus then there aren’t boundaries set… for example, you might devastated if your best male friend suddenly got a girlfriend, but hey, YOU ARE JUST FRIENDS, so why can’t he?

That’s why you need to establish fairly early on into it that there is interest in MORE than being friends…

This doesn’t mean you do it on the first date, it might mean “hey i like you, let’s get to know each other” and so you both know there is potential for going out there, and that you both have interest… and THEN if you become “friends” to a degree, that’s a sign that you are compatible and you can start being exclusive, so we don’t see broken hearts and cheating and miscommunication and misunderstandings going on.

But if a girl EVER says “let’s be friends first” or “let’s just be friends” or “I kind of just think of you as a friend” that equals YOU HAVE NO CHANCE WITH ME… in guy terminology, whereas, the girl might not mean that… so it causes a lot of problems.

Now this girl might not have had a relationship before, but I still think it’d be okay for him to simply let her know that he likes her, but it’s okay if they want to take things slow and get to know each other and stuff… and if she agrees… that is great… you build up a sort of “friendship” while understanding that you are both open immediately for it to be more.

But you know, if you don’t have a mutual understanding (in CLEAR WORDS) that you like each other, then it can cause problems.

That’s what I think I was trying to say… I don’t know a lot here, but well I have learned a little bit from psychology classes (we didn’t really study relationships per se) but that paired with my observations and my experience lead me to believe it’s good to right away (but not too strongly) tell the person you have interest in them.

and I think a great way would be “Hey, you know… I kind of like you… and I’d like to get to know you better.” and see what the response is.

… or something.

/me wants a woman.

and since I am horribly shy and extremely socially inept… I’d say that if some girl managed to talk to me a bit, and we had something in common (lucid dreams) and she went ahead and asked me out… I’d be mega relieved… now I might think it a bit weird and I might be like “umm… okay… maybe… but I need to know you better first… we need to talk more… but yeah, I could see that as a possibility if we click”

I wouldn’t say it like that… it’d be more like “… um… uhh… cough uhmm… well… clears throat…” but… I’d eventually convey the same meaning.

i dont agree with that, i am a guy and i dont think that at all. I do psych and have studied that in class as well, i get what you mean but i think it is unfair statment to say guy talk. Read there body lang as well.

i know that statment is kinda like i dont wannna b with you but there may be a more to it then, u cant get with me. waht about family things, maybe she aint lookin atm or maybe she has a bf already.

Reading body lang is the one of most imporant things that you can do in a converstaion, if she crosses her arms leans back on one leg and says that, use your own judement, if she is placed open, well your choice

Then this means the same thing… more or less… it means give up, it won’t work, she doesn’t want it or can’t have it… right? If it’s family things or she has a bf, why pursue? It tends to make you a mess.

I’ll agree to that I suppose, but I have no experience in reading body language really…

The problem I’d have is sometimes she’d do overly flirtacious things to me, then stop doing them when I mirrored… (things such as patting me on the back more than would seem normal for her interactions with other people… like when saying something “funnY”) then she’d also just… I don’t know.

She came from a screwed up family and was extremely religious… but most of that seemed to be lies to me.

She refused to believe that I loved her too… I don’t know… it was a huge mess… I’m glad I survived it (quite literally)

holy reality, I never would have guessed that you consider yourself shy and “extremely socially inept.” If you’re ever trying to get to know a girl/ask her out, whatever, you might want to do it through writing/e-mail, since you’re so good at it. I don’t know about other girls, but knowing a guy is insightful and articulate with words is a huge plus. Just stick with your strengths. (And keep a positive attitude in that area!) Maybe if you don’t think it extremely shocking to be asked out, you’ll come across as more carefree and laid-back. Sadly, in most cases it’s the girl who waits for the guy. If that doesn’t work for you, just try to make the effort to show that you ARE interested. Shy guys who are very smart might cause girls to think/feel like “he won’t condescend to speak to me!” which isn’t what you are trying to portray.

(I don’t know why I’m giving you advice since you didn’t ask for it, but you started sharing personal information, so. . .)

Good luck with all your “girl endeavors.”

how sweet, i am jealous… she sounds really cool…

i would like to meet someone who had the same interest in lucid dreaming as me…

maybe just maybe u should say hey, have u seen waking life or the wizard of Oz… or something… maybe we could watch it together …

or ask her if she wants to see a movie…

asking the question do u want to go out with me when u dont know her all that well WILL freak her out no matter what…

well i guess my internet activities represent my repressed side… my “shadow”, my unconscious personality type, whatever…

basically I am open, honest (or try to be), and carefree on the internet… very sociable and prone to rambling on and on to a great degree about something that could be summed up in one paragraph.

In real life, I am horrible with words, really… and it’s just mainly because I lack self confidence I guess… I mean I’m sitting here and I’m fairly good at articulating myself, but you know, if I were speaking to someone in public (or on the phone) I feel inhibited, I am afraid to express myself, (on part, becuase I am so radically different than everyone else around me, I fear persecution) … I guess it can be rooted to some stuff I went through in middle school… but then again maybe not, becuase it’s certainly nothing that bothers me anymore, and I mean, maybe it was just a change of personality through adolescence, I don’t know.

I know that had some impact on me though.

But… yeah… I am extremely introverted… and I live in a place full of conservative christian republicans… if I said some of the stuff in public that I say on here … well… I’d probably have reason to fear for my safety in some circumstances.

It’s all that much worse becuase my family are like extreme opposites of me right now, and they say the most narrow-minded ignorant things that just make me sick… and I kind of want to explode on them and own them with some great counter-argument, but I can’t… you know?

Not that where I live, it matters if I vote… since I know Bush is easily going to carry this state… but I just REALLY want to expose them to the “truth” instead of what they get off tv, and you know, print up all these articles that show our paralell to nazi germany right now, that show how screwed up the patriot act, that document cases of government sponsored torture… you know like… open their eyes.

But what good would it do at all? I don’t know… on the one hand I don’t want them supporting this administration, on the other hand unless they move to a non conservative state it doesn’t matter too much… but… I don’t know… change the world 2 people at a time?

It just really bothers me that I don’t feel like I can be myself while in public though… it’s not so bad if I go far far away (and my family is not there) because then who cares what I do, no one knows me.

But whenever I act “different” (as in closer to “normal”) people are always like “whoa, he finally talks” or they say some stupid condescending crap that like… which really bugs me… makes me not want to express myself again.

But as you’ll probably come to find I’m not reluctant to share hugely “personal” tidbits of information about myself on the internet, and am prone to making these kinds of kind of off topic posts like I am making right now.

It’s probably very good for me and keeps me semi-sane.

I don’t know, I don’t feel that I really belong on this planet anymore… let alone this state. There are people like me, but the problem is, they are all just as introverted as me, probably, so how do I find them? I found one, my psych teacher, she’s even into LDs, but… you know, being how I am I have lost contact with her, and though up until now (last week of school) I could have easily gone to see her… I never did.

I have a class with her in the fall though… but… I wonder what kind of impressions I’m sending her? I like her a lot, think she’s pretty cool, would like to talk to her about things, but… well… i don’t know.

So yeah, that’s me… no women/friends for me until at least fall, unless I get a job, which htough I desire $$$ I find unlikey, as I’m lazy and hate doing things.

to sum it up: I feel like if I moved far away from anyone I knew, including my family, that I could be free to be ME and not worry about it… but then again, how long would those feelings last? I thought that when I entered college but did I start being sociable and trying to meet people? No… I abandoned that idea pretty quickly… but then again I’m still largely rooted in my old life… if I abandoned that all, moved out, had my own place, destroyed everything familiar to me with this life, maybe I could easily be someone else.

meh.