Ancient airships or just myths?

[The Nameless One]

Here.

Horribly long article, but sexy nonetheless. So, were there air battles and bombings in ancient India or is it just a wrong interpretation of mythology conditioned by our time period? Should the article sound a little cheesy to some of you, sorry.

My opinion?

[mystic]

I haven't read the entire article (wayyy too long ) but I've read about those Vimanas before. I don't believe they were genuine airships. Myths are symbols, not facts. Hinduism uses these symbols to convey wisdom and yogic insights about the workings of the human mind and body. In no way they should be regarded as rational, historical documents.

[Lebowsk1]

The reason a lot of people would not think it possible is because they have a very linear model of evolution: ie that in the beginning everything was very simple and it got gradually more complex over time. Although I think this is a good relative truth, I think there are many exceptions. So I have no problem believing that ancient cilivisations may well have been technologically advanced.

For one thing, I don't think science is the only way to go in order to produce external 'machines'. I think machines are externalised thought-forms, but I think it is possible to construct them in other ways other than reductionist science. So yeah, if a civilsation became sufficiently advanced in mental/spiritual techniques I think they would be able to mentally 'construct' flying machines. From what I've read of UFO sightings, it would seem many of those structures were perhaps built in this manner because they seem to behave so radically different from our own, scientifically built machines (they shape-shift, move silently and suddenly with no signs of propulsion etc).

Anyway, just thinking out loud. Interesting article.

[Sushupti]

Well, I haven't read this article yet; But IIRC, Vimanas belonged to gods, not humans?

So I doubt they were supposed to have been physical things. Thought forms, as lebowsky said.

Then you just have to pick which is less likely, ancient hindus building space ships, or gods fighting wars on earth

Then again, why do we assume the Bharat of the Vedas was the same as our physical world?

[The Nameless One]

Yeah, they may very well be myths, but the vitrified ruins remain. What could they be?

[mystic]

[Qu]

i didn't read all of the article, but what i did read was that some of the writings are so detailed it can't be a myth - detailed instructions on how these things where built for example.

furthermore, the "Gods" - might be aliens...

[mystic]

The mind is utterly more complex than some pair of airship wings..

Gods being aliens.. sounds familiar.. hellooo Von Daniken

[Qu]

yup von daniken has the vimana example too

anyhow - if you read the article mystic, it really is more complex than that. (not just some wings etc that can be taken as a myth - but detailed descriptions etc.)

The truth is in between.

for example:

[Sushupti]

Well, gods, not being of the earth, would be aliens by definition... I don't see how that would be more likely than them simply beings gods in the hindu sense, though.

[The Nameless One]

I suggest you to read the "Special Features" chapter in the link provided by Q, it's veeery interesting.

[mystic]

Q: really, all these descriptions about pilots, their food and clothing, metals, etc.. don't prove anything to me. Magical texts require magical explanations, just like rational texts require rational explanations. If you try to see a magical text through the glasses of rationality, it's only logical that you try to link it with known phenomena from our rational world view. But the image you get is so twisted and alienated from the intentions of the original writer of those texts. Same thing happened when Von Daniken got his hands on the lid of the Pacal-Votan sarcophagus.. Context, that's what this is about. If you don't place it in its right context, the texts become like clouds, making you see whatever you want to see.

[Qu]

yes i agree mystic I didn't put it to convince you, only that it there is more to it. I find it fascinating.

but, how can you explain that they know so much about atmosphere and cloud forming etc? That sounds very practical. Also the 'air pilots' special class etc. I would like to know when these pilots where around - bc those texts were written down long after wasn't it? And translated, and rewritten, and interpreted etc. But how did it begin?

lol yes von daniken sees aliens everywhere

i still see some kind of spaceship in that thing though (pacal-votan).

[mystic]

Sure it is definitely fascinating.

I can't explain the details of these myths. Only people with the same mythical mind could explain them. Suppose these details really were about airships and all that, then I don't understand how on Earth they could write such rational words amidst otherwise highly magical, mythical words and texts. If you turn it around, it's like saying a scientific paper on a certain experiment is somewhere interrupted by a short magical text talking about how little elves, gnomes and goblins all swarmed through the air to obtain the results from the experiment. At first, the scientist describes his vision on an aspect of reality using scientific, rational terminology, when suddenly his view changes into a magical, mythical one, using mythological figures to explain whatever he perceives. To me that's just utterly nonsense. But apparently, people believe the same thing happened to the writers of these ancient Vedic texts (though the other way round: rational vision amidst a magical world view).
How did it begin? Guess that's lost in the fogs of time Don't know a lot about the scientific opinion on this, so other people will be better at answering your question.

The lid of the sarcophagus of Pacal-Votan can be perfectly explained using Mayan cosmology. I can't recall the details (will look into it) but I thought it was symbolically and magically connected with 2012. We're very fortunate that at least this magical knowledge wasn't lost in time..

[Qu]

as far as i understand is that there are some accounts specifically describing the airships and operation etc and others that are more mythical, where they feature in it.

Let's assume in some ancient time indeed there where airships and pilots etc - later they leave or get destroyed and nobody knows anymore how it worked (I would think this was also secret knowledge, only to be shared with initiates). - then the myth kicks in, and it lives on in stories etc.

i'm most interested if you can find out the mayan cosmology meaning of pacal votan
In one of my maya books i read that the pacal votan had the key to unlock the tzolkin - that the glyphs around it where studied by one man and he understood the calendar because of that, after studying long.