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moogle Could I be dreaming?

Age: 56 Posts: 14858 Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Last Visit: 21 May 2013 Location: Lancashire England. |
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tomas, you can't equate the "killing" of spermcells with the killing of a growing fertilised egg which if left alone will produce a person.
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Tomas The lucid dreamer

Posts: 1472 Joined: 15 May 2002 Last Visit: 05 Jan 2011 Location: Norway |
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I can and will do so. It is just a potentential person at that stage and nothing more. It has no brain, no feelings and does not really exist yet.
It is a whole different case when the fetus has developed, which is why i am not for late abortions unless there has been some research into late abortions which proves that the fetus/baby is not conscious and has no means of feeling pain whatsoever.
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Lark Me

Age: 26 Posts: 187 Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2006 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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*Sigh*. This is a very delicate subject. You don't want to take away the rights of the unborn baby, but niether do you want to take away the rights of the woman. THe thig is, many of the women who get pregnant are teenagers who are uneducated about sex. They do not know about using protection, that it can be obtained for free. Some of them don't even think they can get pregnant the first time they have sex. They also don't know about other options such a adoption, and think that if they have the child then they would have to keep it or if they give the child up they would never get to see it again. This is not true because there are different programs were you can stay in touch with the child and parents through letters and even visists. An unwanted child would grow up in an unfit envoronment, most likely filled with poverty and violence (as shown in studies).
Even though we should not take away the rights of any human being, the unborn child cannot speak for itself. We do not kow if it would rather have grown up in that environment, or would have chosen to be born at another time. Also, studies show that when abortion has bee nmade illegal in the past and in other countries, backally abortions have greatly increased; abortions done by ppl who don't know what their doing and will most likely harm or kill the women recieving it.
While I think it is horrible to take away a life, I also do not believe that it's fair to punish women for being uneducated. I am sure if they knew their options they would not choose to get pregnant. They would chose to use protection, or possibly adoption. Rape cases go without saying. I think that protecting the rights of the baby is just as important as those who are against abortion think. But I think that simply making it illegal is not the answer because we have to take the woman's rights into account as well.
I believe that education (about sex and options regarding protection and adoption) is a solution that will lower abortion rates without taking away the rights of the woman. No, abortions probably won't disappear completely, but the abortions that do occur will be safe (not backalley) and we will not be punishing ppl who were not criminals in the first place but simply women who felt they had no other choice.
Last edited by Lark on Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:44 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Olesia Dream Deity

Age: 25 Posts: 758 Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 31 Oct 2008 Location: In the snow, dancing! |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very pro abortion. I think you should always have right to choose to have an abortion if you don't have any other choice, or if any other choice is highly "unsuitable" (in lack of a better word). I mean, if you get pregnant at the age of 14 and you know you're not capable of raising and taking care of a baby, then why have one?
I know people say you can give it up for adoption, and you could if you want to, but if you don't want to, the option of having an abortion should be available. Personally, I think I would rather have an abortion than give my baby up for adoption, simply because I don't believe that a fetus is a baby yet. Obviously, it depends on how far along you are, if you're in your 8th month it's too late, but in the early stages, it's not a baby. It can't think or anything, it has no awareness... to me it seems like a lump of growing tissues (I hope that did not offend anyone)... Sure, you might be hurting yourself when you have an abortion (but that's your choice, if you think it's worth it) but I would never think of it as "killing" or hurting a baby or anything like that.
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Mohegan Mond Tanz

Posts: 3142 Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Last Visit: 11 Sep 2008 Location: Spiritual Forest - West Yorkshire |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Please note: the part in red may upset or distress some people, particularly anyone who may have been sexually abused. So please bare that in mind if you chose to read it.
My stance is simple. Pro choice.
I would not personally have an abortion (if I was female) but, I wouldn't say whether someone else shouldn't be allowed to. If they are comfortable with it, then feel free, I'm not going to judge them for it.
Look at it this way, what if that person was violently raped could you truely look that person in the eye and say, you have to have that child? You have to carry around inside you the offspring of a rapist for nine month and give it up for adoption, for several months you have to be further aware and reminded of something horrible because I don't believe abortion is right. Do you have any idea how much psychological damage could be done just suggesting it?
I couldn't do that.
Thankfully most reasons for abortion aren't like that, but that doesn't mean the person doesn't feel it's neccessary. You can't judge someone you don't know anymore than they can judge you, so I won't. It really should be upto the parents if they really want to have an abortion.
Pro-choice.
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Am I Dreaming? I often ask myself.

Posts: 100 Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Last Visit: 14 May 2006 Location: In your head. |
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I have mixed feelings.
On one end of the scale I believe that the girl should have the right to chose.
On the other hand, as a male, if I ever got a girl pregnant, I would never ask her to get an abortion because its an inconvenience. Who that child would be and what they would accomplish would haunt my thoughts for the rest of my life. It would be very hard to live with.
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Mohegan Mond Tanz

Posts: 3142 Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Last Visit: 11 Sep 2008 Location: Spiritual Forest - West Yorkshire |
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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From the time we are born, grow up and evolve. We all have the choice to be the next "somebody". Good or bad.
Abortion would obviously stop a being making that choice, but in all I believe it's upbringing that truely dictates whether someone will become the next mozart or the next inventer of a nuclear weapon.
What if Mozart never got the chance to play a piano?
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miscdata Lucid Initiate

Age: 25 Posts: 84 Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Last Visit: 11 May 2006 Location: Oregon |
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Im pro choice but I dont believe it should be used as a "Birth Control" If the mother is going to die if she has the baby or a woman was raped thats completely understandable. But if it was just 2 people being irresbonsible (no protection) they should at least put the baby up for adoption.
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TAG_One Lucid Initiate

Age: 21 Posts: 80 Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Last Visit: 23 Aug 2008 Location: I wish I knew |
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Im neither pro or anti abortion. I believe that the mother should have a right to decide (after being properly educated about the consequences), but I also think that the baby has the right to survival. Remember that the mother has to think of the same things that have been discussed here and consider whether she puts the life of the baby, or her own wants, first.
However I believe that in the near future over population may become a problem and mothers will be encouraged to have abortions.
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rad ...

Age: 26 Posts: 537 Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Last Visit: 27 Oct 2007
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: |
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I think abortion is mostly o.k. but I do have some problems with it. I mean I can absolutely agree with having an abortion after being raped or if the mother's life is in danger due to the pregnancy, or if *sigh* the child will suffer severe birth defects and/or severe retardation. But abortions should be in the early stages, and we need to find a more humane/ respectful way of doing it.
Read at your own discretion:
I've watched the video in health class where they show you the baby inside the woman, where you can see its fingers and toes and limbs developing normally then they perform the abortion and tear it apart with pliers and yank it out in pieces..Developed or not, no human being (or even animal) deserves to die this way (especially if it is due to a lack of foresight/caution on the part of the mother). We need a less primitive and inhumane method. Period. Don't talk to me about how the fetus has no feeling. If it can kick or eat or breathe(even through a tube)then it shouldn't be mutilated by cold, unforgiving steel.
One more thing, if the baby was concieved by two consenting adults in healthy mental condition then the decision should be made by BOTH parents (*flame vest on*). Just wear a rubber or take the pill or something. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time..
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Somnio Forte Somniologist

Age: 21 Posts: 136 Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Last Visit: 04 Apr 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta |
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| moogle wrote: |
| Tomas, you can't equate the "killing" of spermcells with the killing of a growing fertilised egg which if left alone will produce a person. |
I gotta say I agree with Tomas. If it's just an undeveloped foetus, I think it can be justified. As said previously, it hasn't yet reached the point of developing senses/emotions.
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Shaper Lord of Dreams

Age: 26 Posts: 3979 Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Last Visit: 15 Apr 2013 Location: Quebec, Canada |
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| rad wrote: |
One more thing, if the baby was concieved by two consenting adults in healthy mental condition then the decision should be made by BOTH parents (*flame vest on*). Just wear a rubber or take the pill or something. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time..  |
I agree, we all must be responsible for our actions.
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Bruno a smiling haze

Posts: 5950 Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Last Visit: 15 Feb 2013 Location: fleeting. |
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I agree 100% with Rad.
| rad wrote: |
Read at your own discretion:
I've watched the video in health class where they show you the baby inside the woman, where you can see its fingers and toes and limbs developing normally then they perform the abortion and tear it apart with pliers and yank it out in pieces..Developed or not, no human being (or even animal) deserves to die this way (especially if it is due to a lack of foresight/caution on the part of the mother). We need a less primitive and inhumane method. Period. Don't talk to me about how the fetus has no feeling. If it can kick or eat or breathe(even through a tube)then it shouldn't be mutilated by cold, unforgiving steel.  |
And that made me feel awful. I didn't know it was done that way. I definately agree that abortion should be done in a respectiful way, and not... Well, not anything like that.
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claytonthebrave Lucid Initiate

Age: 23 Posts: 57 Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Last Visit: 10 May 2006 Location: Louisiana |
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I , being a christian, just think that it`s wrong. I see the fetus as a human as much as I see you as one. Only under certain conditions should it be okay.
Oh and a fetus does have a personality ...after all they do have a brain long before they come out of the womb.
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skeedlz death metal soul.

Posts: 529 Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Last Visit: 19 Jun 2010 Location: USA |
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| I honestly think that abortion should be left to choice of the woman who is pregnant. She should take into consideration all things from what is best for her and would she be able to provide for this child is she lets it be born into this world. Also i think that if she decides to as some may say "kill" this unborn baby, it shouldnt be just for "i dont wanna have a kid." it sounds bad but we really dont need any more poverty stricken children or families in america or any other place in the world. I really prefer that people think of all considerations. I dont believe you should keep a baby because you got pregnant especially if you cannot provide for the baby, why would you give a child a predestination to suffering for being born? It is better to allow for choice. i know im sort of pushing my vews on everyone and if i offended you then im sorry, but i want to know what would give you the right to say that this child must be born? I have heard that most women (please correct me if im wrong) will keep the baby because they were the ones who nurtured and brought it into the world.so yeah i dont belive you should make someone keep a baby that they arent ready for or cant provide and keep healthy i would think death before realization then death after realization of existence would be better and more humane. (if it is even death. what constitutes life? breath? or heart?)
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