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VisionDreamz
Somniologist
Age: 26
Posts: 185
Joined: 16 May 2002
Last Visit: 08 Apr 2013
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 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| I find abortion gruesome and ugly. I don't think it should be done casually for such reasons as "I don't want to have a baby", or "I can't afford it", or "I'm in highschool". It should be done only if the mother is in danger, and as soon as possible.
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Neo
Procrastinator
Posts: 1022
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Last Visit: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Over There |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ath, a fetus is not home free. There are many things that can kill it that point, disease, getting the umbilicle wrapped around its neck, malnutrition ect.
And I think theres a huge diff between taking away life, and denying the right to live. Someone alive will fear death, and they will feel death. They will have tasted life, and then have it taken away.
Abortion would just be like not watering a seed. A fetus doesnt have a mind or a soul, it doesnt know what life is, so it shouldn't miss it. It doesn't know anything, its just an empty shell at this point.
Now I'm not saying that denying the right to live is good, but I am saying its diffrent and not as bad as murder.
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DreamAddict
DayDream
Age: 34
Posts: 2134
Joined: 09 May 2002
Last Visit: 29 Mar 2012
Location: USA |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think murder is a good answer for a couple's irresponsibility. I also don't agree that it's the woman's choice when a man was involved. I think if the muder is performed that it should require the written consent of both parents.
Science says that two nanometers is the smallest dimension that can support life. If this is true the size of the Zygote or embryo is irrelevant. If an organism absorbs nutrients and grows than by definition it is life.
Taken from: [url=http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/life's_working_definition.html]nasa.gov[/url]
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| Living things tend to be complex and highly organized. They have the ability to take in energy from the environment and transform it for growth and reproduction. Organisms tend toward homeostasis: an equilibrium of parameters that define their internal environment. Living creatures respond, and their stimulation fosters a reaction-like motion, recoil, and in advanced forms, learning. Life is reproductive, as some kind of copying is needed for evolution to take hold through a population's mutation and natural selection. To grow and develop, living creatures need foremost to be consumers, since growth includes changing biomass, creating new individuals, and the shedding of waste |
The 1st day of conception the zygote starts to split, grow, and absorb energy. It is alive.
For my college English thesis I was asked to write a paper on abortion. I studied many diffrent stories from that time. What I found has shocked and horrified me and I'll never agree with abortion as an alternative.
| waterstar wrote: |
| but i dont know how people could have a job like that killing things |
I can't imagine going to school for decades to murder babies. How do these people choose this profession?
| Neo wrote: |
| Abortion would just be like not watering a seed |
One thing that I can't forget is the stories I've heard and read of the babies fighting back. Their arms actually grab the instruments to stop them. In one case a parent was tramatized when the doctor said something like "quit wiggling you little bugger"  and so she later sued.
Do you know how they get around babies fighting back. They break the limbs off first, first the two arms, and then the two legs. Then they insert the vacum to suck away the parts.
Some botch abortion babies live through this with missing limbs.
One lady was taken to a room after the procedure and found her baby's parts in a bucket. She also sued for medical mishap because one of the medical workers put the remains in that room by mistake.
A girl from my old neigborhood had 6 abortions!!! her little sister had 2!!! I don't have any ill feelings towards these people and I love them the same, but legal abortions will be abused for all the wrong reasons. If it must be legal it should at least have limits and restrictions. Abortions are passed around to any and everybody with no questions asked. It really shouldn't be so easy when 1: it's murder, and 2: it's potentially deadly.
If you people are really interested in abortions read about how the procedures are performed. The opinions we share here are pointless until you get an idea of what's actually being done.
Last edited by DreamAddict on Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Real impressive DreamAddict!
Jeff
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Dm7
Nonexist
Posts: 1932
Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 04 Oct 2007
Location: nonexist |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ouch, that's a scary news. Thanks for the information. That is wow... eye-opener for me. Limbs cut off, etc.
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Mohegan
Mond Tanz
Posts: 3142
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 11 Sep 2008
Location: Spiritual Forest - West Yorkshire |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think muder is a good answer for a couple's irresponsibility. I also don't agree that it's the woman's choice when a man was involved. I think if the muder is performed that it should require the written consent of both parents. |
It's not always irresponsibility, many unwanted pregnancies involved protection failing, Rape etc. And what if it was concieved in rape? Do we ask the rapist whether he gives permission for the child to be aborted no matter what?
The problem with abortion is that no one will ever agree on when it is acceptible and when it is not. Rules and regulation are needed but there will always be people who think its murder and will not agree with it.
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The 1st day of conception the zygote starts to split, grow, and absorb energy. It is alive.
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If this is the case then things like the '3day after pill' is actually abortion not a form of contraception. But i'd be surprised if people started mobbing places about that.
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Atheist
Hopelessly devoted
Age: 31
Posts: 2204
Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Last Visit: 21 Sep 2012
Location: California, USA |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Neo wrote: |
| Now I'm not saying that denying the right to live is good, but I am saying its diffrent and not as bad as murder. |
You’re missing the point. Again.
Ok, imagine this. What if I came into your room, while you were sleeping, and secretly gave you something that would ensure you died before you woke. You don’t feel scared, you don’t feel pain, and you are completely oblivious that your life is about to end. So, by your logic, that’s not murder because you didn’t know about it?
It doesn’t matter whether a person or fetus is aware of what’s happening. Whether it’s already lived 16 years, or only a few weeks. The point is, from the moment of intervention, you’re denying that person what future they may or may not have naturally had. You might have died tomorrow even without my assistance - but you may not have. So, just because you already lived a few years, developed a personality (etc), why exactly is it worse for that to be taken away from you, then for the fetus to be denied the chance to develop one of it’s own?
It’s not a complicated issue from that perspective. A person developing is still a person. Hell, you’re still developing now.
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Mohegan
Mond Tanz
Posts: 3142
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 11 Sep 2008
Location: Spiritual Forest - West Yorkshire |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd actually like to hear the thoughts on this from someone who believes that everything is predestined and we are merely following so cosmic script.
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moogle
Could I be dreaming?
Age: 56
Posts: 14858
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Last Visit: 21 May 2013
Location: Lancashire England. |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Insane_goth wrote
If this is the case then things like the '3day after pill' is actually abortion not a form of contraception.
I did say that I saw the "morning after pill" as a form of early abortion in a previous post.
| Insane_goth wrote: |
| I'd actually like to hear the thoughts on this from someone who believes that everything is predestined and we are merely following so cosmic script. |
That would be Atheist!
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DreamAddict
DayDream
Age: 34
Posts: 2134
Joined: 09 May 2002
Last Visit: 29 Mar 2012
Location: USA |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Insane_goth wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't think muder is a good answer for a couple's irresponsibility. I also don't agree that it's the woman's choice when a man was involved. I think if the muder is performed that it should require the written consent of both parents. |
It's not always irresponsibility, many unwanted pregnancies involved protection failing, Rape etc. And what if it was concieved in rape? Do we ask the rapist whether he gives permission for the child to be aborted no matter what?
The problem with abortion is that no one will ever agree on when it is acceptible and when it is not. Rules and regulation are needed but there will always be people who think its murder and will not agree with it.
| Quote: |
The 1st day of conception the zygote starts to split, grow, and absorb energy. It is alive.
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If this is the case then things like the '3day after pill' is actually abortion not a form of contraception. But i'd be surprised if people started mobbing places about that. |
Actually RU486 and similar "morning after pills" have been covered in the same controversy. Anti-abortionist protest are against these as well.
Pregnancy caused by incest or rape are very misfortunate. However, two wrongs do NOT make a right.
There has been a movement of woman that have had abortions after rape or incest. These woman are out to help other woman in the same situation and to change their mind about abortions. Some of the woman say they started to have pity for the life forming inside them. They claim they bonded with the child because it was struggling to survive just like they were after the rape.
Incest is usually rape, and so abortions performed in this situation are done to "cover up" and remove evidence. The stories I've read of incest abortions include the father and the daughter, and the father forcing the daughter to have an abortion. One abortion doctor claimed that 3 sisters came to him for serveral abortions. He was never suspicious that it was the father that were impregnating them, and forcing them to have abortions. Why is it a good thing to cover the crime of rape and incest? Abortion IS being used to cover the tracks of incest sexual predators!
From the outside it looks like a good thing that rape and incest victims can 'erase' the product of that crime. However, the people that actually live through this must endure two crimes and live with the thought of murdering the life within them. Is that really helping?
Do abortion clinics ever try to help or counsel, or just make money? Ask anyone that has had an abortion about the counseling they recieved AFTER the abortion. There is none. It's all a sale's pitch to sale abortion. They never give the ladies an alternative, and they desensitize the ladies to their child by calling it "product of conception" or "lump of tissue."
The point is that they lie. Ask them if it hurts and they claim "mild discomfort" when it's actually excruciating and needs pain pills to take home. Ask them if it's a baby and see how they answer. It's all lies to make money.
What has happened to our sense of shame? Is it shameful to raise a child fathered by your father, or is it more shameful to murder your child to present an illusion of "being normal."
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alex
Dream Deity
Posts: 703
Joined: 18 May 2002
Last Visit: 16 Mar 2006
Location: Australia |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say abortion clinics are out to make money, there are many other positions that a doctor could take to make a living and they wouldn't get threats either.
If they do not believe the 'product of conception' is a baby then they won't call it that. The thing is that people have different views of when or if it is ok to 'kill' the 'product of conception' and to me it is only a question of morals. Whatever you believe you believe and you do what you can to uphold those morals.
Insane Goth i sort of believe in the predetermined thing, up to a point, and i have the view that if it happens it happens, can't change the past (yet), but i am sure there are other people with a different view even though they think everythings predetermined.
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Kat
~ThE OdD oNe~
Posts: 789
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Last Visit: 30 Sep 2006
Location: Kat's wOrLd |
| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Wow this topic came up last week i think..weird coincidence...Here's what i think:
Women who got raped or simply didnt want to have a kid should NOT kill that living being. If they were raped, i realize they probably dont want the baby, but tehy should not just kill it without giving it a chance to LIvE! If thw woman just didnt WanT the baby, they should not kill it because of their mistake of having it in the 1st place! The baby should not deserve to get killed because the woman they would so call 'mother' had sex w/ a guy and hoped no1 would get affected by taht.
I would rather give up my baby than kill it without giving it a chnace to live.
All in all i dont think ANy female should get an abortion because they would Not give that poor living being a chance at LIFe...who would be able to live w/ That dessision 4 the rest of their life? I 4 one would not be able to.
Pray 4 the ones who were never given a chance at liFe...something we ALL take 4 granted.
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Lucidity_Master
Dream Diety
Age: 24
Posts: 1257
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Last Visit: 11 Apr 2012
Location: Probably the Golf Course...or maybe the Lucid Crossroads |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe that abortion shouldn't happen. As Atheist and Kat said it is simply killing the baby before it has a chance to do anything. And just because it hasn't been born doesn;t mean it's not yet alive.
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BioHazard
Dream Walker
Age: 29
Posts: 360
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Last Visit: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Deming,NM |
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Insane_goth wrote: |
| I'd actually like to hear the thoughts on this from someone who believes that everything is predestined and we are merely following so cosmic script. |
I think most of us here belive that we make our own path in life.
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TheDawg
Novice dreamer
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Last Visit: 03 Jan 2004
Location: America |
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Im pro-life, and Ive typed lots of school essays on why Im pro-life on my computer. This isnt the only message board I go to, I go to lots of other MB about politics and we debate about this issue all the time. First off, I really DO believe life begins at conception. The reason Im pro-life is because I simply think, if you chose to have sex when youre not capable of handling a baby and you DO get pregnant, shutting off that life is incredibly selfish and wrong. I also think adoption centers will gladly take up unwanted babys, and then sexually defunct couples will happily adopt your unwanted baby.
I also feel pro-choice people's belief that legalizing abortion brings people there freedom is really weak. What's brings more freedom, the right to make a small choice, or allowing your unwanted baby the chance to live a life? Im gonna go with the babys life, considering thats a lifetime of freedom instead of making a quick decision.
Now thats my belief. But hey, lets not let our opposing opinions beat our friendships alright? On my political message boards we all hate each other and I want atleast one board where all the people I talk to are nice, instead of uptight pricks. Debating can cause major conflicts lol.
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