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Give up extraordinary powers

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Johan
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Give up extraordinary powers
PostPosted: Sun 01 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

One of the main reasons why we see waking reality as more "real" than dreams is because we cannot control much in waking life and even if we can we often have hidden fears and complexes that hinder us from acting freely. Most of us like lucid dreaming exactly because in dreamworld we have much more control power. Everything is possible, only our imagination sets the limits.

In the beginning, we all like this manipulation power. It allows us to fulfill many of our wishes. But after a while, you may get the feeling "been there done that". You know there is nothing in dreamworld beyond your control power. This is a great realization but it can also give you the feeling that it is all so "unreal". If it would be "real", like waking life, you would have to confront huge limits of control. This can create exciting challenges that are missing when you can trick everything to fit your own wishes. Instead of flying away, or transforming everything you don't like, you would have to be really creative and solve your problems with the limited means of ordinary waking life people. So you want to get real but how is this possible in a dreamworld where there is so much temptation to "cheat" and use all those tremendous powers?

In this experiment I would like you to go against your control instincts. Next time you have an LD, play real. Yes, you are lucid, this is a dream, but instead of using your extraordinary powers you refrain from them. You still have the advantage of knowing it's a dream so you don't have to be scared of anything, but you are going to take the challenge to confront the dream as an ordinary human being. Trying to refrain from those powers is a challenge in itself because we always want to follow the easy road even when we're somehow tired of the easy road...

What would happen when you refrain from extraordinary powers?
- First of all, like I said you would feel more "real" because you have to challenge problems like you do in waking life. It is in waking life we spend most of our time so it's waking life that defines for us what we see as "real" or "unreal".
- Besides this, you give much more space to your dream environment so there will be much more room for the unexpected. Waking life can seem very boring but actually every moment stuff can happen you didn't expect to happen, because the world is so complex and we can only have an idea of what will happen - and reality never completely follows our expectations. In a dream there is "you", the ego with all its wishes and expectations, and the subconsciousness that is your foundation which takes care of everything the ego doesn't control. By refraining from control, you leave it to your subconsciousness to decide what will appear in your environment, how things will look like, how people will react. It is my deepest conviction that the subconsciousness is much bigger and richer than our ego so I think this can make your lucid dreams richer than when you try to set all the rules by yourself. Maybe your subconsciousness will give you more creative ideas and solutions because you allow it to do so, by giving it more space.
- This experiment can also have some beneficial effects for waking life. Instead of using the dreamworld as a means of escaping waking life limits you can use it as training ground for waking life. You try to solve problems with limited means and this will allow you to improve your creativity skills when you have to deal with problems in waking life where you cannot fly away from your angry boss. In dreamworld you have the advantage of knowing it's an illusion so even with limited means you can act more freely than in waking life because you don't have all that fear stuff. But by repeatedly doing this experiment maybe you will also discover the illusionary aspects in the way you handle waking life problems. If I can handle the problem in this dream so smoothly, then why am I so afraid when I have to deal with the same kind of problem in waking life? Maybe I better drop this illusionary fear so I am more free to deal with the unexpected? This experiment may allow you to discover hidden fears that hinder you from acting freely, and drop them.

It was a long read, I hope I have convinced some of you to give this experiment a try and I hope you will be so gentle to report about your findings in this thread. Maybe you already did this experiment and then you are also welcome to discuss your findings. Either way, take care and good luck smile .


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chosenone-
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

I must say: VERY interesting, hoping to see replies to this.

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Atheist
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

I just read the initial post a minute ago, but I already feel qualified to throw my 2 cents into the well.

The experiment above involves denying yourself any unrealistic 'powers' that usually come with lucidity. This includes everything from teleportation, to generating objects and bending the laws of physics. Granted it may seem somewhat 'magical' if you happen to have used a reality check to achieve your lucidity, but we'll let that one go.

I used to have a serious problem with losing lucidity a very short time after obtaining it. This went on for about a year, until I adopted the 'Think first, do later' directive. This means stopping and examining the surroundings until you are SURE you have total control of yourself. Having put a stop to my premature awakenings, I decided I quite liked letting go of the controls and pretending this world wasn't under my direct influence.

I enjoy walking among familiar places, and noticing the many inconsistancies with their RL inspirations. I love indulging the senses with rare and magnificent landscapes, or a functional city - active like a nest of insects. I often pick up small objects and examine the sometimes unusal texture or shape, with a never-decreasing feeling of amazement.

I find it appealing that the people in the street aren't real, and therefore don't judge me because I'm standing there with a less-than-intelligent expression on my face, stroking a tiny stone creature like an infant with any colourful toy. In RL I'm especially critical of my appearance to others, and often tend to enclose myself in a small dark room whenever possible. Enjoying a world in which I have no face allows me a pleasent change of imagination from the usual images of killing and death.

Thanks for the oppertunity to present my expereinces, BrainHacker. I recommend everyone leave their subconscious in charge for at least one night - it will truely amaze you.


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Jack
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

Great post BrainHacker:)And great reply Atheist:)

Since the beginning of my lucid adventures i was there to explore and to be suprised.Of course the start was tu change things,to do magic ,to have sex.The last i had to put on hold for a while since it seems to be waking up factor(really unfair:).
Anyways ,whenever i have ld im tempted most to explore the dremscape,to see whats "behind the corner",whats behind the mirror,what this people there have to offer ,what they gonna say.Also im still in search of my dream guide(hes/shes really hopeless:)
Actualy i just wanted to say that atheist took the words out of my mouth,thats exactly my point:)
take care:)


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Qu
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

tonight i had a lucid dream - it was very long, after my initial chat with a DC (are you awake? you are in my dream right now, oh you are from australia? then you are probably awake right now, because i'm sleeping)

i decided to check out my dreamscape and tried to think of an experiment to do. i remembered this one. at this time i was in some kind of flower shop. i realized that for me this experiment is impossible because i knew i was lucid THEREFORE if felt very secure about myself and knew nothing could happen to me. I knew that i couldn't pretend it was real life, because i had that certainty over me that i only have in LD's.

so i jumped on to another experiment - i post that in the other tread grin


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Johan
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

Thanks for all the nice replies and thanks for trying the experiment pasQuale. Actually you don't have to be "unaware" of your powers or becoming non-lucid, that is of course impossible. You can't fool yourself, just like you cannot make a mistake on purpose. The experiment just involves giving up extraordinary powers, it's like making your lucid dream a game in which you decide to obey the limited rules of the game called "waking life". And then see what happens. I have written down above what I think will be the "results" of such an experiment, and I am curious what the actual results would be. We don't read much about this kind of experiments because 99.9% of the lucid dreamers focusses on doing the weird stuff and using all the powers when he becomes lucid, so the results could be surprising.

Again thanks for the replies and I hope other dreamers will give the experiment a chance smile . I'm becoming more and more active again what concerns practicing LD techniques so maybe in the near future I will have a chance to try the experiment myself.


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Jeff
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

Oops i forgot this experiment ..hehe..i had a ld and i thought it would be nice to date a girl i liked and so i did..was very ok date lol! Hmmm i must make a topic list again for my lds like in the old days..one topic at a time..hehe..sorry brain hacker..had 2 lds last 2 weeks but was not busy with a topic...ok i make a topic ld list again.. smile

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enlightendone
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

Well I like this idea you have come up with ... Just was wondering about something though ... Lets say you give up your powers and all goes well ok cool ... Is it possible to inherits anothers body in your dreams?? Hence leaving yourself in your dream??

Is it true that if you die in your dreams you will die in life??


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Tomas
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

I totally agree with you. I think too much control would be boring in the long run.

Its more fun to be suprised by the dream, than controlling it, cause then you pretty much know what will happen.

I think some control is cool though, but not too much of it.


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Qu
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec, 2002  Reply with quote

BrainHacker wrote:
Thanks for all the nice replies and thanks for trying the experiment pasQuale. Actually you don't have to be "unaware" of your powers or becoming non-lucid, that is of course impossible. You can't fool yourself, just like you cannot make a mistake on purpose. The experiment just involves giving up extraordinary powers, it's like making your lucid dream a game in which you decide to obey the limited rules of the game called "waking life". And then see what happens. I have written down above what I think will be the "results" of such an experiment, and I am curious what the actual results would be. We don't read much about this kind of experiments because 99.9% of the lucid dreamers focusses on doing the weird stuff and using all the powers when he becomes lucid, so the results could be surprising.


ah, i misunderstood then smile I'll try different next time wiske


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2003  Reply with quote

enlightendone wrote:
Is it possible to inherits anothers body in your dreams?? Hence leaving yourself in your dream??

Is it true that if you die in your dreams you will die in life??


From what i hear, you do NOT die in RL if you die in a dream. Like Stephen Laberge says, "If so, how would we know," or something similar.
However, i haven't done it, so i can't be positive.

As to the other question, i personally don't believe in any of these concepts of interacting with others in a dream, since this would imply a sort of 'dream realm' in which all dreams took place and which provided a connection between everyone. This does remind me of some of my favorite fiction, though. ^^

As for the experiment, it sounds like a pretty cool idea, but since the main way i lose lucidity is drifting too far into the story, i could never try it, at least not at my current ability level (most dreamers refer to this level as 'he couldn't ld to save mankind').


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Ascension
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jan, 2003  Reply with quote

Great post BrainHacker. By consciously allowing the subconscious free reign in a dream we must surely foster better relations between the two. And better realtions with our subconscious mind means higher levels of instinct and intuition, two greatly overlooked assets in modern society.
Dreaming in general has helped me greatly in approaching my subconscious mind. Simply by recording my dreams and the symbols that my subconscious gave helped me to start to "bridge the gap". Though I am well aware that the gap is miles wide still, I am most pleased to even have recognised it and begun to seek to close it. Though I still have a long way to go, I definitely feel a lot closer to my deeper mind through dreaming. I have found that now when I forget a dream, often a silent request to my subconscious will bring the memory back, as if something somewhere in that hidden sea of knowledge has forced a wave of memory to connect with the conscious shore.

Your suggestion shows an awareness of the importance of the subconscious, one that must never be overlooked in the quest for conscious control over dreaming. One can often forget that although dreams can often be a reaction to conscious observation during the day, sometimes the subconscious will use dreams to try and put it's message across to us, and speaking through personal experience I have always found this message is very worth listening to. Consciously allowing the subconscious to manifest in this way is surely the key to a finer mental balance and harmony, and ultimately better self contentment.


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Hivemind
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Training
PostPosted: Sat 18 Jan, 2003  Reply with quote

Well what about starting out with no powers and then training to have them.It's not exactly giving up powers,but it's giving up extraordinary powers until you earn them.There's a more rewarding factor when you actually accomplish something instead of just using god-like power all the time.

I'm training with magic in some of my dreams so I can't just cause earthquakes or teleport right now although I have tried in NLDs.It didn't work though.

I guess I could take a break from training.It's nice to sit down and talk to DCs sometimes.


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Jack
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jan, 2003  Reply with quote

Funny thing-we are given God powers and we just dont like them:)hehe.We get bored,we get used to,we get accustomed so fast.
That reminds me of a theory:we come to the earth living to experience something else besides nirvana.We choosen to come down from heavens where we are with God and where we are Gods ,just to experience something else.Theres no cold without hot,theres no up without down.Ont the other hand-we all desperately try to feel that nirvana again.And circle goes on.Mad:)
I dont know about others but i personally cant stop thinking what the hell was i thinking or how much i had to be bored to choose mortal living instead lying on the cloud ,eating grapes and flirtinng with angels.Stupid me.


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Jeff
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb, 2003  Reply with quote

smile Ok Brainhacker..lol..

2 days ago i had a ld and i thought well what shall i do..
Then I remembered your experiment to c what would happen if u did not use your powers...
I was walking in surroundings were everywhere were farms.
I will skip all the details how the farms looked like farms and grass looked in detail like grass. I thought i wanted to have sex with a nice blond farm girl..hehe..
So i walked to a farm, one close by on my right side. I walked to the front door of the farm.
Here i cheated..I walked through the front door xray styl..lol.
Well ok yellow card here. But then i never used my powers again in this ld...so sad blauw
I was in a living room and there was a blond nice sturdy girl (not a tank) preparing dinner.
A little boy..say 1 1/2 years old or so sitting in his little chair at the dinner table. Here i was tempted to use my powers and seduce the girl for a hot jungle sex dance.
But i didnt..so sad blauw ..
I did like u asked for the experiment...i didnt use my powers..lol..
The girl looked at me and started to gave me orders right away..
"Go peal the potatoes" she yelled at me lol.."knife is at the table" she pointed her finger at the dinner table.
I was interested what would happen if i did what she asked..hehe..
So I pealed a lot of potatoes. When i was ready i showed her the result. She looked at the small pile of potatoes and yelled at me 'go make up the beds upstairs'.
So i went up stairs and saw several rooms with open doors. I chose the bedroom to the right of me
and started to pull the blankets straight on the old wood bed i found there..
I hate this job..lol. Well after i was ready with all bedrooms i went downstairs and said proudly.."Done"..She was now really cooking some stew or so, smelled nice.
She said..'Feed the little boy'..infront of the little boy on the table was his meal..a bowl with warm oat poridge.
I thought, my god when will we have sex? Then i started to feed the little boy.
Hehe it was a nice boy..he gave me a bright smile.. I started feeding him, then suddenly all started to fade and I woke up....GRRRRRR no sex in my ld where i wanted to have sex in.
So Brainhakcer, in my next ld I will use my powers again cheesy .
Maybe in future i try this once again but then i will give orders and look what will happen.
Or at least ask a girl if she wants to play Tom and Jerry with me smile instead of being her slave cheesy

Greetz,
Jeff


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