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Incredible book critiquing materialism and evolution

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Sureal
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Isn't evolutiona and microevolution the exact same thing.

After all, the first human didn't just BAM outta a pregnant monkey. Changes happened, very little at a time, as with the birds I described above.


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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Microevolution is evolution, yes. However, microevolution is not macroevolution.

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fflarex
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Over time it can be though.

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Sureal
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

But we're not tlaking about macroevolution, we're talkign about evolution in a whole.

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mindfield
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Quote:

Okay no offense mindfield, but how the heck did anything in this topic imply that the humans of the past had psychic powers?

lach2lach2
Sorry. I see that I went into offtopic. If you are interested I would rather won't post it here but in a PM.
However I think it for real and I think it have connections with evolution theory. After all the evolution topic is about our origin. And origin can imply many things.


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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Sun 23 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Sureal wrote:
But we're not tlaking about macroevolution, we're talkign about evolution in a whole.


If we're talking about evolution as a whole, then we are talking about macroevolution...as well as micro.


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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Sun 23 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

fflarex wrote:
Over time it can be though.


This wasn't even close to being proven yet, last I heard.


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Neo
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Dreamfortehwinz wrote:
Sureal wrote:
But we're not tlaking about macroevolution, we're talkign about evolution in a whole.


If we're talking about evolution as a whole, then we are talking about macroevolution...as well as micro.


A square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square. So if theres a bunch of squares around, and no unregular rectanges (non-squares) then you can say that there are no rectangles?

You have to at least say that some aspects of evoltion are (most likely) correct, even if other aspects are not. You're not anti-evolution, just anti-marcoevolution...


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1984
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Quote:
You're not anti-evolution, just anti-marcoevolution...


But are you lot who are on the critical side? Or are you anti-evolution in general. Do you, like me, accept that evolution is by far the most plausable and rational explanation as to how life arose and diversified, but that it is still unproven to a greater or lesser extent (depending on your stance over evidence etc). Or do you reject the whole theory, maybe because you are a creationist etc? Because this isn't clear to me. Thanks.


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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Neo, I'm not anti either. As I said in a previous post, I believe in both macro and microevolution(who doesn't believe in micro?). (EDIT: I didn't directly say that I believed in micro, but I did for macro; obviously if I'm willing to believe in macro I'm going to believe in micro, as well)Evidence for micro is too strong to deny it, and I believe that evidence for macro is so strong that it's almost foolish to deny it either, but the evidence for macroevolution just isn't as powerful as the evidence for microevolution.

Just because I'm disagreeing with posts about evidence for macroevolution doesn't mean that I'm against it - I'm just trying to clear up the facts here.

Again, there's microevolution and macroevolution. The most widely accepted theory is that microevolution leads to macroevolution, over time. This has never been proven in the slightest. Macroevolution has unnaturally been forced through genetic manipulation of the homebox gene in certain species of insect, but that doesn't really mean anything.




Last edited by Dreamfortehwinz on Mon 24 Jan, 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Ego Tripping
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

I think Evolution is very accurate. I think Natural Selection is a bunch of bullshit. At least, it is until they figure out what 'drives' the processes behind the functions of Natural Selection. IMO, this is exactly where God ties into Science for me. Science explains How, Spirituality explains Why. Natural Selection is another way to describe the idea of infinite increase in complexity. Things only get better and more complex over time, despite Entropy's desire to break down through decay. This is "God's" role in Existance...the ever-present Force that binds all and always encourages growth (due to unconditional Love).

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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

The thermodynamic principle of entropy doesn't apply here.

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Ego Tripping
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

Not directly, but the key idea is ingrained through all processes of Life. Science still has no answer under the current Scientific Model of why things get better over time.

The Universe is assumed to be a Closed System. Evolution states that things change and grow seemingly more complex (this applies to Cosmic Evolution as well) but there's no explanation of where all this extra information is coming from to change something from a Protezoa to Human Being, no matter how much time is allowed for it to 'evolve.'

Once again, I support Evolution entirely. I just think it's cutting out a huge part of the puzzle.


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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

It's not impossible to find syntropy in a system in which entropy applies.

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Dreamfortehwinz
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jan, 2005  Reply with quote

I agree that the unidentified force that drives evolution can seem mysterious and almost intelligent. However, the mystery of this force diminishes greatly if the theory of microevolution leading to macroevolution is accepted.

Even if we reject the latter it would be fallacious thinking to assume that the seemingly mysterious and intelligent force is related to something outside of the physical.


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