EN | NL | FR
Current Wings Quest 126
Lucid Rhymes

The DreamMaker

Post new topic Reply to topic

Author  Message 
Rassle Co
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 20
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Sun 24 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

I think it would only be proper since you pointed out that "Bruce is right in one way", that in my opinion, Bruce is so definitely wrong in possibly hundreds of ways. Someone earlier posted that where there is smoke, there is fire;where for every one person that complains, there a lot more people that just say "forget it".
Galvonic skin resistance to detect REM... way too complex for me. I still think IR detection is the simplest way to go, I'll let you know how the Kvasar works out.
I just went to the DreamMaker site. There are now testimonials from "satisfied customers"... most of them from Colorado Springs...hahaha
Did anyone notice that Bruce just dropped off of this forum after people uncovered his past?


back to top
Bernard
Sporadically Lucid
Somniologist
Posts: 131
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Last Visit: 12 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
 
PostPosted: Sun 24 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

I'd suggest that this exchange basically confirms the story that one finds when searching the net. This subject might be worth a sticky topic of its own -- It's a story that's been discussed on this board a fair bit already.

To wit:

*Inflated, misleading and frequently revised (downwards) claims and assertations. Poorly designed, poorly built products, that don't perform as advertised, let alone accomplish the desired goal. That's assuming the product actually arrives after it's been paid for.

*Generally poor service, lots of excuses, and special pleading, denial of responsability. There are occassional "example cases" of better service but they appear to be strongly atypical cases (and generally these people aren't -- as far as I can tell -- well known to any community where they appear or are refered to) . The Better Business Bureau, bulletin boards like this one, "fraud watch" style websites and organaziations, and and a surprising number of spcially created websites document an ongoing pattern of dissatisfied costomers.

*A pronounced tendency to blame the customer for not accepting excuses, or for not considering promises to someday deal with the problem as equivilent to actually dealing with the problem. Often accompanied (several exchanges down the line) by variations on the "if you had been more constructive/nicer/more trusting, I would have fixed your problem yesterday" speech -- often completely ignoring the actual content of the original complaint.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And a question for anyone in the know -- what exactly about this product would be patentable?

As far as I know, anything that is legitimately patentable has already been patented by LaBerge or The Lucidity Institute (which perhaps wasn't really properly patentable, but at least the case could be made) and is probably near expiry date by now anyways. Certainly nothing in Gelerter's device get's around "prior art" considerations.


back to top
reddog
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 06 Nov 2005
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

You know, no one would be here with this problem letting people know " HEY it's a rip off, save your money" if the dreammaker cost $99 dollars and the dreammaker pro cost $149.

back to top
milod789
Night Explorer
LD4all addict
Posts: 2991
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 03 Apr 2013
Location: USA
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

Well I personally would not buy any of this guys products.
Anyway, the dream maker(and its problems) has been discussed many times before:
DreamMaker - the new novadreamer
Dream Maker - Phoen's Personal Review
Perhaps a mod could merge all the dream maker topics into one thread for people to read.


back to top
Rassle Co
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 20
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

I am sorry to be beating a dead horse, just going on and on about this. I wish I had done my research and found this forum before buying the DreamMaker.

reddog, I hope you are wrong. Yes, more people would be inclined to just say "forget it", but getting ripped off is no deal, at any price.


back to top
MeusOpusMagnus
Somniologist
Somniologist
Posts: 150
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 04 Feb 2006
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

i think the price has a lot to do with unsatisfied customers, and i don't see why that's wrong in any way. At least you know for 99$ you don't expect spectacular features that were claimed to exist... If it comes and you see it doesn't have EMG, then whatever, it was 99$ and the price is somewhat justified (25 - 50$ for components MAX, and 50$ for research/profit)...

But when you ask way too much for something that (not that it doesn't work, it may work, but it's not what it was claimed to be) of course people will get upset


back to top
Johan
Dream Deity
Dream Deity
42
Posts: 969
Joined: 09 May 2002
Last Visit: 11 May 2011
Location: Belgium
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

milod789 wrote:
Well I personally would not buy any of this guys products.
Anyway, the dream maker(and its problems) has been discussed many times before:
DreamMaker - the new novadreamer
Dream Maker - Phoen's Personal Review
Perhaps a mod could merge all the dream maker topics into one thread for people to read.


Good idea.

The three topics have been merged. Please don't post about DreamMaker outside this topic.


back to top
reddog
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 06 Nov 2005
 
PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

You seem to know about this stuff alot rassle. You talked about novadreamer as if you used it. Does novadreamer work? Readding what you have posted I believe that it works better then dreammaker, but if the dreammaker doesn't work, that isn't saying much.

EDIT: also wanted to know if it would do what the little news clip showed, be able to walk you into a WILD in 15mins. Something I have only done twice in my life. Most my lucid dreams don't last long(maybe 3mins), most the time I wake. Last night I was looking at my feet and my right foot had two more feet on the other side of it, was a dead give away. I got out of bed and walked out side and the sky was black, strange because every time before the sky was purple and gray with lighting. The spining thing worked also I did that for the first time other wise I wouldn't have made it out side.

Is this what they call outter-body?


back to top
Rassle Co
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 20
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

reddog, I don't know a whole lot, but as a technician, I tend to look at things logically. I found the NovaDreamer operations manual online so I had that as a basis on which to judge the DreamMaker. From researching the NovaDreamer, I knew a little of its operation, so when the DreamMaker came out advertising all these great improvements with a pre-order price of $200 and seeing how the NovaDreamer was no longer being produced and the remaining stock selling for upwards of $700 for the Basic model... yeah, I took that blind leap. Fool I was.
I was thinking of selling it on eBay, but I would be just as bad as Bruce Gelerter, ripping people off. So I am going to eat this loss, but I am going to do my part to warn people about Bruce Gelerter.


back to top
Enamored_Spirit
Dream Reacher
Dream Deity
Posts: 708
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2007
Location: Cyrodill LDs:Total-11 July-1
 
PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

He seems a bit childish for a company CEO. Certainly not professional. I think he's got manufacturer-customer misunderstandings too. I don't mean to be a jerk, but frankly, you don't give a paying customer a sob story guilt trip. You give them the product as described or you give them their money back, how dare they try to make the customer(who was completely deceived and ripped off [even if he's telling the truth and that wasn't his intention]) feel guilty for complaining??

back to top
Shaper
Lord of Dreams
LD4all addict
32
Posts: 3980
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jun 2015
LD count: Many
Location: Quebec, Canada
 
PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

"The Costomer is always right!"

Our pal Bruce has forgotten this.


back to top
Enamored_Spirit
Dream Reacher
Dream Deity
Posts: 708
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2007
Location: Cyrodill LDs:Total-11 July-1
 
PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

I think being an ***, even if you are a customer is wrong. But calling your customer one(esp. one with valid concerns), is a bad idea.

back to top
Rassle Co
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 20
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

Bruce Gelerter calls himself a CEO, but it's just a one man operation. He isn't childish, in my opinion, he is a outright con-artist. Bruce has been involved in "Get Rich Quick" schemes for a long time. Search Google.
Just wanted to let you all know, that he is now trying to sell his junk through Amazon.com
I'm trying to get a review posted.


back to top
milod789
Night Explorer
LD4all addict
Posts: 2991
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Last Visit: 03 Apr 2013
Location: USA
 
PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

Just an FYI if you have problems with this product:

Complain to the better business bureau so there is a record of complaints but don’t expect action. The BBB is just a private not for profit organization and has no authority of law.

Complain to:

Your states bureau of consumer affairs and your states attorney generals office.


back to top
Rassle Co
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
Posts: 20
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 28 Mar 2007
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005  Reply with quote

You are correct, milod789, Thanks. The BBB is pretty much just a toothless tiger, but all you have to do, is respond to the charges and they clear your record.
I'll just keep tracking Bruce Gelerter and try to stop him before he can get anything started.


back to top
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

print  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB
LD4all ~ spreading the art and knowledge of lucid dreaming online since 1996 ~