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The Spirit of Giving XIV

Can animals have Lucid dreams?

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Shaper
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

A dog doesn't know what or why when it comes to night and day, but I'm sure it can percieve a difference. Besides, I only said it would be possible if the dog remembered it's dreams, which is unlikely, because mammals have a natural amnesia that blocks dream recall.

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Garibaldi
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

Maybe some intelligent animals can, but I doubt it. Good question.

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Pancra85
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PostPosted: Tue 27 Sep, 2005  Reply with quote

If I could bet about this I'd go with the "No they can't" and I will bet about U$s 5000 (If I had the money, of course)

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Korittke
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Nobody considered that it is widely assumed (though it cannot be proven) that most to all animals do not have consciousness and do not have psychical sensations.
Animals don't know they exist. They don't even recognize themseleves in mirrors, how could they do it in dreams? They are merely machines but they don't know they are. They have input and output but it is not essential for their survival to know that they exist. It's only essential to do the input/output thing. In fact consciousness would be counter-productive (it is for most humans anyway)


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Fadem
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Animals can't really 'think' like humans, if you say they do that's some form of antropomorfism (sp in english?).


antropomorfisms: think, feel, ... , be aware


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baramonday
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Korittke wrote:
Nobody considered that it is widely assumed (though it cannot be proven) that most to all animals do not have consciousness and do not have psychical sensations.
Animals don't know they exist. They don't even recognize themseleves in mirrors, how could they do it in dreams? They are merely machines but they don't know they are. They have input and output but it is not essential for their survival to know that they exist. It's only essential to do the input/output thing. In fact consciousness would be counter-productive (it is for most humans anyway)


What about primates? If it's possible to teach a chimp sign language, is it possible to ask if they dream? And since a chimp can recognise that the mirror reflection is itself but not the “real”self trapped behind the glass, is it possible for them to distinguish between a dream and real life?


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Korittke
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

Yes I guess primates can distinguish dream and reality while they don't understand why they both exist. Other animals are more like children who don't know the difference at all (I'd assume that animals act exactly the same way in dreams as they do in waking life).
However, I don't know if chimps can learn lucid dreaming (or have lucid dreams). From the brain structure it could be possible but it would be extremely rare. It's rare among humans, and even those who master it aren't always lucid. I doubt that primate information transimssion methods are developed enough to tell others if they had a lucid dreams and therefore spread it. I also don't know how many of their dreams they remember. Many humans don't remember dreams well, and for chimps it's even less important to remember them. First, chimps are less complex, and second, dreams as such fulfill their biological function without being remembered anyway.


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dreaminghamster
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

I believe they can have LDs due to the fact that they have REM.

One funny thing is once my pomeranian was sleeping on the floor with her legs twitching and she was dreaming, my whole family was laughing at her.


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svavarg
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Oct, 2005  Reply with quote

I think that it would be possible to find out if they have lucid dreams. A research was made by the lucidity institute to see if the brain patterns would be different in LD's and they were indeed different so I think the reason that we have no idea wether animals have LD's or not is because no one has done research to find it out. I would also like to say that i don't think that we could say surely if animals know that they exist or not or if they are as dumb as we think because we cannot know what they are thinking

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