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The truth behind 9/11? - Part II

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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

Info on attempt to get more 9/11 information released for public and academic scrutiny: http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/030306Evid ence.htm

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Shaper
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006  Reply with quote

A slightly off topic reply;

Yep, all the background music is hip hop.


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

Big developments afoot and I feel a duty to report them here.

Firstly Alex Jones has actually been allowed onto such mainstream tv channels as MTV and CNN thanks to the efforts of one brave Hollywood celebrity. Charlie Sheen gave an interview on the Alex Jones radio show during which he displayed superb knowledge of all the key issues. He drove the wedge of his argument into the Building 7 controversy, saying "if there is a problem with building 7 then there's a problem with the whole damn thing. And guess what: there are signifigant problems with building 7"

The mainstream media pretty much ignored the story as far as they could but of course when a celebrity buys biscuits it can make the "news", so the story did surface on the "Entertainment" (!) section of CNN's news programme. The Host AJ Hammer actually allowed a very fair examination of the controversy, and Alex Jones put his view across as directly as he always does when allowed some national tv time. Seth Macfarlane (creator of Family Guy) also had an interview later in the show and when asked about Sheen gave support. Sharon Stone has also expressed support for what he is doing in a separate interview.

But it would seem it is not just the celebrity's who are agreeing with Charlie: CNN ran a poll asking viewers whether they agreed with him in thinking that the administration is covering up crucial facts about 9/11. A staggering 82% of voters agreed with him at the close of the poll. Statisticians do point out that these polls are not scientific but even so, numbers of that sort in a poll of that sort are extraordinary.

Other media outlets were not so even-handed and many published "hit pieces" which generally made a big thing out of the fact that Sheen used coke during his party years. None of them addressed the issues he raised. Sheen gave a second interview with Alex Jones during which he asked critics to challenge him "on the facts".


So the movement has gained huge momentum with this, and if Sheen and Jones are to be believed we could very well see many more celebs go public. Ed Asner (director) already has. Here's an archive of info on the Sheen story including the interviews: http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/sheen/index.htm


But this is not all that is going on, and is probably not even the biggest 9/11 truth story right now. Venezuela is currently playing host to two other prominent 9/11 truth campaigners: Jimmy Walters and William Rodriguez. For those who don't know them, some details:

Jimmy Walters is a billionaire who has spent vast amounts of his own cash in trying to get the truth about 9/11 to the people. He's spent 7 million on producing and distributing DVD's alone, and also paid a lot of money to get a full page ad in a national publication on the subject.

William Rodriguez was the last person pulled from the rubble of the North Tower on 9/11. He was in charge of stairwell safety and heroically returnedto the towers many times to assist firecrews in getting people out alive. He also believes there were bombs in the buildings and has attempted to file a suit against the government for lying about the cause of the collapses.

Anyway, these two guys have found some real friends in Venezuela and perhaps the most amazing this is that they are government officials. That's right: the actual government of Venezuela is sceptical of the official 9/11 story. After the pair were pressured by US agents to release details of who they gave DVDs to on a beach (and after Walters received a death threat via email) they have been given full military protection. Of course, the US government is working very hard to oust Venezuela's Chavez. Pat Roberts (Christian preacher) has openly said on tv that the administration should assasinate him. Perhaps now we can see why they would want to.

Walters is going to get many other prominent 9/11 skeptics to come to Venezuela and the goal for them is to set up a truly independent enquiry into the events of 9/11. The team will have an international flavour and include ex-german minister and best selling author on 9/11 Von Buelow, physics professor Stephen E Jones, philosopher and theologian David Ray Griffin, ex UK member of parliament Michael Meacher and others. More details here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/310306 launchinvestigation.htm


Also Dr Robert M Bowman, who was the head of the "Star Wars" defense project, has also repeated his claims about 9/11, this time adding that Cheney is his main suspect. See his comments here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/040406 mainsuspect.htm



And finally, on a personal note I wholeheartedly recommend the book "9/11: the New Pearl Harbour" by David Ray Griffin. I read it in two sittings and learnt many new facts about the controversy. I don't see how any free-thinking individual could read that book and not conclude the US administration actively made 9/11 happen.


Top evidences for US administration complicity include:

- the demolition of building 7
Despite not being hit by a plane, this 42 storey building collapsed completely, evenly and at freefall speed. This, amongst many other things, was not explained by the official commission (or should that be ommission?). Larry Silverstein and Mayor Guliani have both made statements that strongly suggest foreknowledge of this unprecedented collapse yet they have not been asked to explain themselves. Not by the media, not by the commision

- the stand down
One thing this books makes clear is that standard proceedures were overriden on the morning of 9/11. You need to look at the timeline of that day to fully appreciate how much time was wasted. Even after both planes had hit the towers and another was known to be heading towards Washington, no fighter jets were scrambled. In the past few years there have been hundreds of occasions when jets have been scrambled after planes had drifted only slightly off their predetermined courses, and yet there were no intercepts ordered to at least investigate what was going on until after the pentagon was struck. The only explanation for this is that a standown order was given (there is also evidence of this order in dialogue with Cheney on the day)

- the wired money
Pre-9/11 millions of dollars were wired to the account of Mohammed Atta. They came from the head of the ISI (pakistans FBI, set up and maintained by the US). This very same man was present with US administration officials on the morning of 9/11.

- the hole in the pentagon
There is a complete refusal to release footage of the plane that supposedly impacted the pentagon. There are numerous lines of evidence that suggest the plane (or even missile) that struck the pentagon was military in nature (including testimony of an entire room of air traffic controllers).

- pre and post-9/11 "investigation"
On numerous occasions investigators were obstructed and prevented from carrying out their work by their superios pre-9/11, which would have foiled the attacks. The commission post-9/11 was late, underfunded and hindered at every turn by the administration.

- the removal of evidence from the scene
Engineers were furious when the steel of the WTC was first guarded with machine guns and then shipped as quickly as possible off to china before it could be examined. The cause of collapse would be clear from the steel, so what motivation would there be to prevent a full investigation into that steel? Tampering with forensic evidence at a crime scene is a serious offense in itself.


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

Lebowsk1 wrote:


But it would seem it is not just the celebrity's who are agreeing with Charlie: CNN ran a poll asking viewers whether they agreed with him in thinking that the administration is covering up crucial facts about 9/11. A staggering 82% of voters agreed with him at the close of the poll. Statisticians do point out that these polls are not scientific but even so, numbers of that sort in a poll of that sort are extraordinary.



I think I've seen some other poles with the same kind of figures (on one of Alex Jones' own documentries). It had something to do with foreknowledge of the vent...in any case, 90% of the poeple serveyed believe the government had foreknowledge and did nothing (which is a realistic figure, and a realistic turn of events in my opinion).
I'll have to go back and watch it again sometime. Anyway, it's nice that Alex Jones makes these mainstream appearances yes

EDIT - I forget to mention my main point. It's poles like this that show us a huge amount of people are just not buying the mainstream story (I'm not sure what to believe anymore overspannen )


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

But Josh, if a stand down order was given to allow the planes to hit their targets, does that count as "doing nothing" or actively assisting?

How about the removal of the steel? That's surely an purposeful action as opposed to passive inaction.

... and of course if the buildings were demolished (why would they feel it neccesary to get rid of the steel before investigations if they werent?) then that CERTAINLY counts as direct action aimed at making the events of 9/11 happen.

I'm just hoping Team Venezuela come through with what they are tryingt to do, although that would of course force the hand of the Neocon Cabal... so we'll have to see how they react and whether they attempt the same strategy again.


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

Lebowsk1 wrote:
But Josh, if a stand down order was given to allow the planes to hit their targets, does that count as "doing nothing" or actively assisting?

How about the removal of the steel? That's surely an purposeful action as opposed to passive inaction.

... and of course if the buildings were demolished (why would they feel it neccesary to get rid of the steel before investigations if they werent?) then that CERTAINLY counts as direct action aimed at making the events of 9/11 happen.


I agree that is was direct action rather than simply the government 'doing nothing', I just had no idea how far the network of US contral actually went behind all this. For example, I knew Bush had prior knowledge of 9/11 and did nothing, and I knew Bin Laden was a former CIA operative. But I did not know the huge amount of prior knowledge the entire Bush administration had, and I didn't know that both the Taliban and Al-Queda were children of the CIA......and what I still don't know is, why are mainstream news agencies so afraid to publicize this?

By the way, have you gotten a chance to see 'Loose Change'?


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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

I have dial-up at home and havent had a chance to get any of my friends with broadband to play it yet, but I will at some point. It's definately getting some serious exposure, a guy sitting next to me at work had it recommended by a friend and had seen it (and found the arguments it made convincing).

I did hear an amazing Alex Jones interview the other night though, it's on the site for free and is with Dr Robert Bowman. Check it out if you get time, it's a freeplay on the site.


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Apr, 2006  Reply with quote

I'll definitely check it out, I'm really starting to get into Alex Jones' work smile

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Atheist
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

"The BBC is reporting that the US government has decided to release the videotape depicting the crash of Flight 77 into the Pentagon building, nearly five years after the 9/11 attacks. The government had previously withheld the tape due to 'ongoing investigations' into al-Qaeda's Zacarias Moussaoui. A government representative commented that they 'hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories.'"

I was actually excited when I saw that on Slashdot this morning. I though, "Cool, they'll finally show us a video of a plane heading towards and striking the Pentagon, and people can stop pretending it was a missile." But then, to my great disappointment, what do I see? The same video that was released 4 years ago, just with an extra 2 minutes before and after the event, which adds nothing to the debate. This video still doesn't show what hit the Pentagon, and I'm extremely annoyed about that. Why doesn't the US govnerment want to help us believe their side of the story? Why are they doing their best to make it look like they were responsible? I'm trying not to fall into the conspiracy trap, but it's so damn hard to maintain any trust in the official story when they refuse to allow us to see what really happened. Why can't they just release a single frame from one of the videos that actually shows a 757 about to hit the Pentagon? Doesn't it bother them that half of the United States is convinced that their government is directly responsible for everything that happened on that day? Proving to us that a 757 hit the Pentagon would be a significant moment, because it would demonstrate that conspiracy theorists aren't necessarily arriving at the correct conclusions given the visual evidence we've all seen. And yet, they don't want to show us what happened.

It's been 5 years, George. Show me some pictures of a plane hitting the Pentagon. What are you trying to hide?


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Julian Iron
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

Is the video in real time ? Cause, just like you Atheist, I wanna believe a plane hit the pentagon, but gosh, that is one fast plane ! eek2

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Atheist
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

It's a very poor quality video recorded by a camera positioned in the Pentagon's parking lot. It only captures one frame each second, so the plane never actually appears anywhere in the video. One second everything looks fine, then in the next frame, there's a giant fireball engulfing the building. The frame before the impact does seem to show an indistinct blur entering the picture from the right, but it's just the front part of the object, and isn't a good enough indication of what the object is. All we know is that it was white.

Where are all the other confiscated videos? Why are we still unable to see them?


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StEvE21
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

Im downloading "loose change" right now. I already saw the first 7 minutes, and that alone had some pretty fascinating and convincing stuff.

I watched the pentagon video, and the plane looks like a fighter jet.


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Atheist
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

Be sure to take a look at this document after watching the video. Apparently Loose Change contains more fiction than fact, and a huge percentage of their information is just plain wrong. They didn't know what kind of engine was in a 757 (they show all these diagrams from the wrong kind of engine while comparing it to the wreckage found at the site), and they're very selective about what pictures were included in the documentary. They intentionally left out any of the dozens of pictures that show an enormous amount of wreckage in and outside the building. It's a convincing documentary right up until someone who actually knows a thing or two about avionics and building construction points out that they got practically everything wrong.

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DayLight
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

The government released a survalince video of the attack on the Pentagon, hoping to put some of the theroies disscussed here to rest, but the video does not explain much. It is about five frames, and one of the frames shows a small dark silver object on the side of the screen that looks like the nose of a plane, but you do not see it move anywhere near the Pentagon. The object is in the corner of the screen, and then the Pentagon explodes. It really dosen't look like it is hitting the Pentagon, it looks more like a bomb exploding from the inside.

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Lebowsk1
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PostPosted: Wed 17 May, 2006  Reply with quote

I gotta say I have come across a site that defends the official version of events rather well.

www.911myths.com

I'm still skeptical but definitely less certain now, after taking a good honest look at the above site. Building 7 may well have been more damaged than I first thought... but the collapses are still suspicious to me. But yes, like all forms of attachment it is very dangerous to invest too much faith in theories like this (as Atheist said, the "conspiracy trap").

But in saying all of that the latest footage is indeed puzzling. Where's the plane? What I want to know is why wasnt clear footage proving without a doubt what hit the pentagon provided at some point during the report proceedings? Why try to decipher the truth from eyewitness reports when there were more reliable witnesses present in the form of video surveillance? (worth bringing up here that the footage was taken by CIA guys very quickly after the impact)

All the skeptics are demanding is a new report into what happened, an unbiased and independent report.

But then look here in the UK: the government has announced that there will be absolutely *no* enquiry into the 7/7 bombings.

I dunno man, I just dunno... whatsthat


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