Only if there’s sufficient reason to do so. If my “iron grip” beliefs currently appear to explain everything I’ve experienced in this realm, then why do I have to change them? It seems silly to rush off and search for ways to validate these paranormal beliefs when we’ve never even witnessed an event that gives them credence in the first place. Why invest resources in a search for Santa Claus, when there exists no evidence to suggest that he’s real? You have to be able to draw a line between reality and imagination, and a lot of people don’t know where to put this line. Ideas like PK (if I had to guess) probably originated as an imaginative concept, then slowly made their way into peoples’ belief systems out of sheer “cool”-factor, rather than observation and demonstration. Again, why do you make it appear that I am closed off, when I’ve yet to see anything outside the bounds of my existing beliefs? If I can’t see anything outside, then why open the gate to let it in?
There’s a difference between “open minded,” and being unable to distinguish valid holes in our model of reality from those born of imagination. Yes, we’ve had to adjust our views countless times in human history to take into account radical new discoveries. We’re forever changing our minds about how the universe works. It’s inevitable, as nobody bothered to leave us an instruction manual when we were first put on this planet. But if anything, these changes to our understanding have been moving us away from magic and paranormal explanations, not towards them. Every time we discover how something works, it means that we’ve been able to find a logical cause for that phenomenon, seated within the unbreakable laws that everything ultimately comes down to.
It’s a predictable pattern:
A phenomenon is witnessed and we can’t explain it.
A supernatural or paranormal explanation is given as a “temporary” explanation, because we refuse to admit that we’re missing something.
Someone works out which physical process was actually responsible for the phenomenon, and we adjust our views to accord.
It’s a pretty consistent pattern, and hasn’t faltered yet, as far as I can see. The problem with PK is that it skips the first step entirely. People are providing paranormal explanations for something that we haven’t even witnessed yet! Hold your horses, everyone. It’s not sensible to investigate something that never seems to have happened before. Why not rush out into the countryside and look for leprechauns?
I remind you, a million dollars is still waiting for anyone who can demonstrate these powers. It’s all well and good to suggest that those capable of performing the ability are too meek or shy to step forward, for fear that they will become lab rats, but I don’t buy it. Considering people are willing to post movies of themselves apparently using Psionic powers on the internet, it’s obvious that they don’t all wish to remain anonymous. They simply can’t do what they claim to be able to.
The Randi Challange isn’t a fair one. Not only are 990,000 of the prizes in bonds (which the organization wouldn’t comment on when further questioned) but they have a bad way of treating people who apply, and refuse many of the people from even being tested. This may be a case of he said they said, but since Kramer later admitted to altering the emails (though not to fabricating that last one) I would go with Peebrain’s side. Which is also the side of the paranormal in this case. Here is his write up about his experience with the Randi organization: psipog.net/show.php?cmd=wp&id=14
You can also check out their forums and see their responses and Peebrain’s.
That’s certainly an intersting link, and if true, would indeed show that the Randi challenge isn’t as straight-forward as it first appeared. But let’s not lose sight of the big picture here. Even if the money was awarded in the form of bonds, and even if those bonds somehow happen to be worth nothing (very unlikely), still, there would be people willing to take the challenge if they thought they could win. It’s not just about the money… it’s about being the first person ever to prove in a controlled environment that paranormal activity does exist. If you can perform a repeatable action that this or any other institution cannot explain, then you’re going to get recognition for it. You’re going to change the world in a very drastic way. Hell, you don’t even need to deal with Randi if you don’t want to. Any respectable scientist would love for you to show your abilities in his lab. And nobody ever has, barring those crudely outdated German experiments during WW2.
Peebrain could have demonstrated this ability to any scientific association, and he’d still make a fortune.
It’s also inportant to remember that there are many other awards and challenges that are a lot like Randi’s, yet no one has succeeded at beating them either.
And Atheist is right, the recognition alone should be enough for someone to step up and do one of these challenges.
I am not debating those points. I just really don’t like people quoting Randi’s challenge after that little ordeal. I wonder about those as well, and I believe in TK. If anybody has a good explanation for those, which I doubt, I would be very interested to hear it.
your right, but i think that the natural skeptic is going to question the legibility of the so called “scientists” who are supposedly making sure noone cheats. i really believe that its just something you need to experiance for yourself.
Sorry, I did not mean you, personally. I meant 2nd person narrative.
I know there are things that exist that our current model cannot explain. But as to what they are… who can tell?
As for PK. Sure, that would be nice to be true. Is it? I dunno…
Can I test it? nope. Can I disqualify it from the realm of existence? Not at this time, but also I cannot accept it as a reality for me.
As for Santa Claus… well, that was just a thought experiment… what happens when you are confronted with a reality shaking event (what ever that is). Sometimes I wonder if somebody from the 1700s could see what things looked like today… radio, tv, airplanes, cars, internet, space travel… would it make sense? Or would it be like someone telling us “no, really there is a Santa Claus… and here he is” …
Indeed. Even if that reason is to question if your current models are valid. Maybe they are, maybe there is something more. either way
Unless, they can do something even better like manefest $1M by themselves.
Bill Murray once said something like: “Given the choice to accept either fame or fortune, choose fortune first… and see if that works for you”
– But I agree. If somebody can do it, they should claim the prize.
Not quite. Things are much harder under constant pressure and being watched. also we are talking about proving things. It is literally impossible to prove most things. the only things we are able to prove are laws. “If I let go of this apple, it will fall” that is the basis of a law. It offers no explanation of how it works, just an if _____ happens then _______ will happen. keep that in mind. I personally believe Telekinesis or w/e you want to call it is true. however the concious mind can only do so much. Picking up something larger than a pencil would use a great deal of your own energy. I believe that if a human concentrate they can control energy fields to a limited extent. If you look at psipog you can find out about how they were able to influence a geiger counter using only their brains. Also I am not affiliated with the peebrain who runs the site. I picked this as my internet name long before discovering Psipog because of a inside joke between me and my friends. so don’t ask. Just my two cents
Assuming the individual mind is an extension of the Universe’s mind, whatever we believe will inevitably be true. I’m not suggesting that someone who believes they can fly or perform PK, can, but I’m not suggesting they can’t. If we are all expressions of the Universe’s mind, then majority of belief rules. Where I come from, that’s Christian Capitalist. Not good or bad, but limiting. Physical, tangible laws of science will be true if that’s what humanity looks for and then believes in. I think in Quantum Physics this is called the Observer created Universe or maybe it’s the Wave Function collapse. Je sais pas. Any attempt at understanding the vast potential of human, and therefore Universal, awareness will end in a limited understanding of that awareness. The word is not the thing itself.
I don’t believe it. If people could do it, then we’d see it a lot more often in real life. Or they could take up Randi’s challenge and earn a hefty amount of money.
As for the “We only use [insert number]% of our brains,” snopes.com debunked that a while ago.
Do you think it is possible to move things with your mind? Maybe just slightly?
I read somthing on the internet about scientists say that It could be possible. I also saw some websites and videos of people claiming to do it and saying that it is real. So, if you know anything about it, or if you can (or claim you can) do it, tell me.
isnt the big psi topic for this … bur well good you open a dicussion on this (anyone notice that stycky threads are less frequently replyed to then non-sticky ?)
Me too . I have had a few “experiences”, but not sure if they were just a coincidence. Here are some of my examples:
-Last year, the 7th and the 8th graders would wave a “war” going on. They wern’t bullying or anything, it was just play. Before school, we are not allowed to go inside of the halls and we have to stay at the bottom of the stairs. The 7th and 8th grade stairs were near each other and there would be two large groups of people. The 7th graders would throw a water bottle, then the 8th graders would throw it back along with a few pieces a candy and an old folder. Then, things started to fly everywhere, then for the first time, a teacher saw this and walked in between the two groups of people and yelled “STOP! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? THIS IS…” blah blah blah…then I said to one of my friends “heh, that would be funny if he got hit by a water bottle.” then…BAM! He got smacked in the back with an opened water bottle.
I predicted the future .
-And every once in a while we go somewhere I’ll say “We’ll probally see sombody that we know here” and well…we would! normally when i dont say it, I see nobody I know, but when i do, i usually see sombody i know. I have been wrong probally once or twice out of the 12 or 13 times i have said this.
and i know i didnt actully move things with my mind, but it is the closest personal expericence i have had with telekenesis.
OMG! This happens to me all the time! Only the opposite, so if it just randomly comes into my head and I don’t say anything it’ll happen, but saying it is almost like spoiling it. (except the whole harry potter scar thing,which I TOTALLY called!!!) I don’t know what to consider this as, and I don’t think it’s TK or PK or anything. Until I find out what’s going on, I’ve been calling it life’s inherent irony.
I’d like to hear if you’ve thought more about this, but not sure if it’d get off topic.
I totally believe it. And don’t blame my ‘youthful ignorance,’ all you nonbelievers. I went to that website, PsiPog.net, and I tried out the paper/thumbtack thing, and the paper kept twitching the first time. The second time I tried it, the paper turned a little; about an eighth of a turn. I completely believe it’s true and possible.
I’ve found some interesting things out over the last few days…
one is that you cannot control nature, nature takes its own course. All you can do is go with the flow of nature and direct it the way you want it to go.
the second thing i found is that pure willpower can do things like telekinesis, given that it doesn’t disobey the above statement - otherwise it will simply not work.
So it would seem then that to achieve telekinesis, one would have to be going about their daily business and then using will power to make something move that is in their way. It is very difficult to use will-power let alone pure will-power. I would describe pure willpower as a godlike will that contains no greed, selfishness, evil intent or desire. So it would probably be easier to try and use your willpower to move people and cars out of your way, rather than a stationary object. I think a stationary object would take something close to the will of god. I also think it would be easier with people because they can be influenced on a subconscious level and I believe humans do possess some kind of psychic ability. Take for example when you are staring at someone then they turn their head because they can sense it… or if you notice you are being stared at just because you sense that feeling of being observed.
Noticing that you are being stared at is a bit strange that we know if we are or not. I don’t know if it is part of psychokinesis but it might. That is a very good example.
. I have had a few “experiences”, but not sure if they were just a coincidence. Here are some of my examples:
Florida peeps!