tonight loose change 2nd edition gets aired on dutch national television. Here in the media in the news, people have been talking about the conspiracy theories, and trying to see what’s true about it and what not. They have been showing the collapsing towers and the explosions, and the supposed plane that hit the pentagon already in other talk shows.
Well people! Round here, it’s Septemeber 11th. I haven’t seen any thing new about the 911 theories on tv, but heard that so many diffrent things were supposed to be released today. Has anyone seen or heard anything?
Speaking of which, last night the CBC played two documentries about 9/11 last night. The first about the events leading to 9/11 and the second about how the workers at ground zero are experiencing health problems because of the environment they were working in. I only got to see the first one and the last 10 minutes of the second one, but after watching the first one I’m having even more trouble with the fact that people are still believing the stuff in Loose Change. What I mean is, just watch Loose Change and then research this stuff, and you’ll see how many errors there are, it’s almost mind blowing 
Anyways Q I’m happy that this movie will be played. I believe that if more people watch it, it’ll inspire everyone to go and research this for themselves so they can get to the bottom of things, because dis-information helps no one, especially in a case like this.
Atheist:
I have already mentioned in this thread that the pro-official story material out there has proved to be much stronger than I originally thought (I actually linked to 911myths at one point). I’ve re-examined my beliefs with regard 911 and, although I’m not yet in favour of the official theory, I am much less certain with regards what happened. But back to the specifics:
re: the collapses
I accept the analysis of the “squibs” and, to some degree, the points you make with regard concrete pulverisation. That video footage does seem to suggest the expulsions were caused by air pressure, and I’m not sure what happens when you drop concrete from that kind of height.
But at the end of the day the key features of the collapse still don’t add up for me. I know you are claiming they were slower than freefall, but they were still exceptionally fast collapses. In addition to that, they followed the path of most resistance. And, of course, they were total. I have since seen a documentary about a small group of survivors who emerged from the rubble, and they were mentioning that some of the support beams were cut (the show was in no way related to the conspiracy theories though).
So the collapses are still suspicious to me. But I take your points on board. I realise now that some of the evidence conspiracy theorists use is not as strong as it first appears to be.
I’ve recently flown for the first time and the experience added to my scepticism with regard the efficiency with which the hijackers hit their targets.
Basically my stance here has shifted from “9/11 was an inside job… and I have the proof!!” to “9/11 smells incredibly fishy to me… but proof is hard to come by”
Your interpretation of the “squibs” I can possibly go with, but there would have been huge resistance to the falling floors from the undamaged lower floors.
To be honest I’m sceptical of the whole thing, the point of how the planes were caused to impact the buildings.
Anyway, it’s a big patchwork because, as I’m British, I’m following the British counter-terrosism situation very closely. One overlap is with regard the Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI?). One terrorism suspect here in the uk alleges that they have been setting up training facilities for terrorists, and he has ceased answering questions about them due to possible danger to his family. The connection to 9/11? The Pakistani ISI (or someone associated) wired money to Mo Atta pre-911. This is on record, excuse lack of citation. And yet there is no attack on Pakistan by the US.
While on the topic, do you have any arguments with regards the events pre-9/11 such as the above mentioned wiring of money?
I’m not stooping to the level of persisting with 911 conspiracy claims just because I don’t like the Bush administration, I do genuinely think there’s something wrong with the official version of 911. But you guys have certainly shown that my case is very hard to prove. Jesus, do you guys know that one of the main officers responsible for the Menenez shooting here in London recently got PROMOTION?
Sure, maybe you interpret conspiracy theories as social phenomenon, but with the kind of political goings-on we witness in the world today, I hardly think it surprising that people don’t trust their governments.
Well fine, but I linked to an interview with a very highly qualified guy in my last post, with much experience in a relevent field. I’m kinda tired right now so I’ll offer the cop-out answer that I feel intuitively that there is something wrong with the collapses.
And this is flat-out incorrect (as far as I’m aware). The only footage of the first impact itself was picked up by that documentary crew following the NY firefighters that day. It wasnt aired until the next day. The second impact was caught from many angles and was replayed over and over and over, but obviously the first one caught the media by surprise. The footage only made it out the next day.
But there may be some decent explanation for Bush’s statement. Silverstein’s statement is certainly far from the confession I first thought it was. I mean fair play to you official story guys, you’ve got some strong stuff, and we conspiracy nuts will certainly have to raise our game to stay in this.
And I’m not mindlessly clinging to the conspiracy side here, I’ve given this a lot of thought lately… and although, once again, I have to say I’m very impressed with the material you’ve presented, it still doesnt persuade me.
Definitely on the backfoot though.
Hey, what happened to that post complimenting us for keeping it civil? I liked that! 
Interesting quote from a 9/11 sceptic blog:
I feel this is certainly true, and I’ve learnt some lessons lately by reading defenders of the official theory. I feel I shall be largely inactive on this issue until I re-clarify my position on it.
9/11 conspiracy? lies spread in order to gain political power , in other words the “spreading 9/11 conspirace idea” - conspiracy is the only true thing here , you all have to look at the big picture for once and relize all the loose changers an 911truthers make up evidence in order to spread it to gain power from 9/11 like they say the us goverment at the time did it or whatever in other words they USE it for personal gain.
Bullsh*t. I have heard that claim many, many times before, and it is sort of absurd. What political gain are they making here? If you take note of who believes in the theories, there are almost no Republicans, almost no former Bush supporters. Most who believed what they saw in Loose Change and the other 9/11 truth videos were already opposed to the Bush/Neo-Con agenda. Bush probably lost five votes to Avery, Jones, and the bunch.
that’s about it , thoose who want to opose the republicans spread this kind of stuff and the other guys belive in it
one guy once said , if you repeat a lie too many times eventualyl it becomes truth , it’s not the wexact quote but it’s very famous , should be noted today with the recent crisis in israel the uprise in the nutjobs about 9/11 (Learn some history will ya? it wasn’t the only attempt to take WTC down during the early 90s when CIA and the tal;iban were cooraporation some other guy tried to do this but it didn’t work)
and the big picture about why the fuck would anyone do it in the first place??? and if he could do it why would he need any justification for anything?
I’d like to see Dylan Avery’s bank account statement, and see how much money he and Louder Than Words LLC have made off of that blunder of a documentary 
The fact is, regardless of political agendas and the like, there are some big problems brewing in the truth movement - ignorance and prejudice.
Take for example the Loose Change forums; they’re full of theories that are absolutely baseless…not baseless like ‘explosives brought down WTC 7’, I mean baseless like ‘an H-bomb blew up towers 1 and 2’, or ‘the planes were actually missiles surrounded by holograms’…and I’m not making this stuff up.
And in some of these threads, they blame the Jews and implicate them in some kind of world wide conspiracy. It’s racist, and it boggles the mind how people can actually claim to be thinking, yet come to these conclusions 
Before, I was willing to at least entertain some of the ideas in the 9/11 truth movement, but after all the research I’ve done, seeing both sides of this issue, there’s not much credibility left to give these guys when it comes to these conspiracies.
When it all comes down to it, I feel that this inherent prejudice, plus the stuff Lebowsk1 mentioned he read in that blog, are going to become the nails in the Truth Movement’s coffin.
And you know whats the worst of it? …
what benefit will the 911 truthers give to the world?
A simple message-
Think for yourself. Don’t accept everything your government tells you. Question Authority.
^ here here. If you accept preconceived notions without first evaluating the data for yourself, you’re not much.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
I believe thinking WITHIN reason is usually a good idea.
Yes, but people tend to forgot that this goes for both sides of the situation.
seriously do you think it could have been that hard to silence some 5 people who first came up with it to prevent it from spreading? you do know that’s what happens to people like this in other countries even shining democracies…
on the other hand the evil goverment bent on killing it’s own people and members must have been making silly conspiracy theories that make no sense so no one will belive in them and dismiss anything but what the people in NY see and the morons who danced in happyness the next day and took responsibility
no new information is likely to be found in the near future and this topic is starting to go into an heated religious discussion.
I will lock the topic … but if anyone has a relevant post to add … just pm a mod and we can easily reopen it again.
The flame war was now removed from this topic too. 
In my science class, I am doing a research project on the physics of the Twin Towers collapse, giving a brief history of the 9/11 Truth Movement, and a summary of some of the other claims made by the movement. Does anyone know the history of the movement? Who started it, etc? Links to articles regarding the physics of the collapse, supporting the official or CD theory would be helpful as well.
Probably the best place to dig up some good info for your project would be on the James Randi Education Foundation’s Website, right here, in the Conspiracy Theory forums.
It’s very anti-conspiracy, a lot of the members have done some good work at debunking a lot of the junk science used in the conspiracy theories (and there is a lot of junk science.)
Any questions you have will be answered very well there.
You could also try posting on the Loose Change forums. Try posting something scientific that goes against what they say in the film, and you might just get banned without warning 
There’s also www.debunking911.com, two of the best resourse’s I’ve found, especially the first site - very unbiased, nothing but the raw facts, etc.
Really? Or is that a joke?