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TwilightDreamer
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Envy is bad. It is the reason for classes in today's society (Alongside capitalism). But I was not speaking of getting "fun" when being better than others. I was speaking of getting fun just by having more than you did earlier.

ANd again, we are not "programed" to desire more. If we are unlucky, we are "programmed" to desire to look better than others. It happens to us even without programming: A perfectly communist society, WILL grow teenagers who will always like to look better than their siblings, even though they were educated that we are all equal.

My point is that it is bad to want to be better than others, and that it is bad to want to hurt others while gaining yourself. But my most importent point is that it doesn't matter what we think, but rather how we act. I might envy you for having better clothes. But I will not act about it in any way (Including buying clothes only ot be better than you)(With the exception of making my own cloth that will look better than yours)

So overall, you HAVE to think that you are better than others. If you will look deep into your SC, you will understand that you must feel better than something: Either it is an animal, or a plant, or an 'inanimate' object (Such as a robot) But if you can supress those thoughts, and make sure you follow a number of base guidelines, it won't realy matter wether you will think you are better or not, because you won't do anything wrong about it.

And what you don't understand about "happiness", is that it can be learnt. For example, you can learn to enjoy SP, if you like. you can learn to like a song you dont. You can learn to like a life you don't. There is no one thing called "happiness" in the entire man kind. it's subjective. The only ways to judge peoples are wether they are conformists, and wether they hurt others or not, and not through how they gain happiness.

If i'll offer you now a free trip to the hawaii, alongside a resident in a five star hotel, will you take it?
If you will, you can always say that that makes you a materialist, wich is bad.
If you won't, you can always say it will hurt others, because no one will pay them for their living.
But if you will go, and you will not act like you are their superior, and you will not be lead by the money, but lead the money with you (I.E: you will not throw coins at them and watch them picking them up), then it will be fine.
And if you won't go, but you will give it to one of the people who needs it, you will still help them.

One last thing: Even if you give someone your ticket, in the name of equality, you will still feel superior to them, even if SC-ly: After all, they will never give such thing to you...


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tetragrammaton
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

i think Reno's post was incredibly interesting.

there's an Incubus lyric that goes : "isn't it strange how a privilage can feel like a chore?"
this is kinda related because we all feel (occasionally) that we are trudging through life and that life has no adherant value.

i'm currently learning about buddhism because enlightenment is really attractive.
is anyone else interested in buddhism?

there's another quote from an unknown source that says : "all the creatures of earth, except humans, understand the purpose of life is to simply enjoy it."

so why is it so hard for human's to enjoy life?
i think we are distracted.

does anyone else agree that the environment we live in doesn't have much room for thinkers?


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Reno
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

tetragrammaton wrote:

so why is it so hard for human's to enjoy life?
i think we are distracted.

does anyone else agree that the environment we live in doesn't have much room for thinkers?


True, I do believe most of us are caught up in our own agendas, trying to move through life experiencing everything that our society offers to us, but never looking inward and seeing what we have to offer ourselves. I defiantly believe that those who truly have the time, should take the time, to think of things like this.


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Traveler
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

I think about everything so thoroghly that I often "Miss the point" on ELA type questions even though my point is better. Also many scientific theories that are complete rubbish in my mind but i am fored to "belive" in them. i.e. The big bag theory

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Lizard King
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Reno wrote:
Lizard King wrote:

My problem is, society today is revolved around having better material goods. People are trained to find joy in getting money and possessions. But I think when it comes down to our nature, we TRULY find happiness naturally.


So if I were born into poverty, instead of working hard to pull myself up and live comfortably by knowing where my next meal is coming from, I should, instead, give up on the whole "class" thing, rent a book on philosophy from the local library, and settle into my nice, cozy alleyway and contemplate my existence?

Lizard King wrote:

It is the people that have never even considered otherwise that I look down upon. The people that are completely brainwashed.


Well, I'm sorry if the poor, ignorant, and starving masses (who move through their pitiful lives without even giving their personal economic beliefs a second thought!) anger you so much so that you look down on them with disgust, but no one's life is perfect, we all have things we have to live with, in your case, it's coexisting with people like that. */sarcasm*

So you know, I don't believe you actually feel this way, just understand how vague and general statements like those that took up your entire post can be misinterpreted to mean something completely different. You could get into quite a few arguments otherwise.


Whats your point? When living in this world, you are forced to settle into the system and fall into a class.

The poor starving masses are absolutely spending time wishing they had nicer stuff and more money. Everyone does. We allow the big capitalists to decide our desires while we are young and vulnerable.

Yes, a majority of people are ignorant to this fact. If your going to deny the fact that almost everything we do is somehow correlated toward getting money or possessions, then I can't even take your words seriously.

Envy doesn't create classes, money creates classes. Envy creates further tension between classes.

If you are born into poverty, based on how you were raised you probably will be able to provide yourself food and shelter at least (in most cases mainly referring to the US). It comes down to needs vs. wants.

I'm just curious as to how anyone is disagreeing. Look around, it's right in your face everywhere you look.


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Reno
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

All right, let's take a look here... smile

Read this quote, carefully...
Lizard King wrote:
Reno wrote:

So you know, I don't believe you actually feel this way, just understand how vague and general statements like those that took up your entire post can be misinterpreted to mean something completely different. You could get into quite a few arguments otherwise.


What I was saying there was that I agree with you that our society is centered around money, but that the way you worded what you said made it sound as though you thought everyone in the world has the time to contemplate life, where, in reality, many people don't even have a place to call home. I was saying that their #1 concern should be acquiring enough material goods/money so that they can live comfortably; that is the top priority of any creature, survival. The way you said things made it seem as though you looked down upon anyone who didn't take the time to think of life in any form other than a game of survial, when I knew you meant only the people who were capable of doing so (capable of getting through each day alive and well-off).

Lizard King wrote:

Whats your point?


My point is that I agree with you, but am telling you to watch how you word things because someone who comes from a background filled with poverty would take what you said the wrong way. I was only saying that you should be more descriptive because what I said in my original post is one example of a misinterpretation of what you said. Your statements were vague, so I was able to take what you said and turn it into something you didn't intend it to be.

Lizard King wrote:

When living in this world, you are forced to settle into the system and fall into a class.


I agree, but from your last post, it sounds like you're looking down on anyone who does settle into the system when you said just now that everyone is forced to.


Lizard King wrote:

Yes, a majority of people are ignorant to this fact. If your going to deny the fact that almost everything we do is somehow correlated toward getting money or possessions, then I can't even take your words seriously.


Um...... I don't believe I said anything about people not wanting money, (unless you're talking about the alleyway thing I mentioned, but that was complete sarcasm) actually, I think my post said everything about people wanting money. I may be wrong though, If you still think so, please post the exact quote and I'll try to explain it more clearly, (maybe I'm the one who's being vague! ^^ )

Ya see? I agree with what you're saying, I just thought you should watch how you say it.

No hard feelings, kay?

hugs


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Lizard King
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

It's a very general topic.

Now since I don't really know how to work forums very well I'm not going to be using quotes.

I find it to be a problem that not everyone has the time to contemplate life. The system we have established turns people into drones. You don't even need a high school education to survive. Why do people look down upon those who don't go to college? Survival=need, $100,000 car=want.

Frankly if someone wants to take what I said the wrong way, I couldn't care less. I am speaking out against everything we know, it is expected to get some disapproval.

I look down on those who truly settle into it, the ones who see nothing more important than getting that project done in time so they can afford the expansion on their house. The ones who push their kids in school to a point of unhealthy stress and anxiety, so they can be more comfortably distracted by nice things before they inevitably die. It is mainstream, it is how humans live now a days. As kids yes, we are forced into it, however when maturity rolls around the smart ones at least give the topic a thought.

I have a Buddhist temple near where I live, and I tell you those are the truly happiest people I have ever met.


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TwilightDreamer
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Quote:
the ones who see nothing more important than getting that project done in time so they can afford the expansion on their house.

So if I want to finish that project just for the sake of creation, is it bad? Can't I be happy without thinking of myu existence?

You do need to understand, I do agree with much of what you have said. I just think that if someone gets happy from creating, or by helping others, its just as good as getting happy from understanding our purpose in life.
Do you agree with that?


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tetragrammaton
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

yeah i agree.
the little things can get you through.


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Draginvry
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

The Evil Manifestation wrote:
I think about everything so thoroghly that I often "Miss the point"


I do this constantly. I remember a job interview where the guy was asking me what I would do under such and such circumstances. I replied with complex philosophical statements detailing every possible outcome based on my supposed future knowledge of such phenomena, how well I knew the people involved, and the time frames involved in the resolution. The guy actually stopped me to tell me that I'm "not supposed to think about it" and just answer. I told him I wasn't thinking, that in fact my answer WAS the first thing that came to mind.

It seems that I am "missing the point" daily, as even my answers to obvious everyday questions are way above people's heads. You should see what happened last time my sister asked about my religion. It was a mess.

IMHO, most people could do with a bit more thinking. Even my best friends seem very provincial to me.

I also stopped filling out general surveys because the bullet multiple-choice canned answers are simply inadequate, especially if the surveys are about religous beliefs. I quit college for the same reason. About ninety percent of what I learned wasn't really true. Not only was it false, but most of it was complete trash that wasn't even worth believing in the first place. About the only class I learned anything in was Geology, and of course the Existentialism course.


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tetragrammaton
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Draginvry wrote:
The Evil Manifestation wrote:
I think about everything so thoroghly that I often "Miss the point"


I do this constantly. I remember a job interview where the guy was asking me what I would do under such and such circumstances. I replied with complex philosophical statements detailing every possible outcome based on my supposed future knowledge of such phenomena, how well I knew the people involved, and the time frames involved in the resolution. The guy actually stopped me to tell me that I'm "not supposed to think about it" and just answer. I told him I wasn't thinking, that in fact my answer WAS the first thing that came to mind.

It seems that I am "missing the point" daily, as even my answers to obvious everyday questions are way above people's heads. You should see what happened last time my sister asked about my religion. It was a mess.

IMHO, most people could do with a bit more thinking. Even my best friends seem very provincial to me.

I also stopped filling out general surveys because the bullet multiple-choice canned answers are simply inadequate, especially if the surveys are about religous beliefs. I quit college for the same reason. About ninety percent of what I learned wasn't really true. Not only was it false, but most of it was complete trash that wasn't even worth believing in the first place. About the only class I learned anything in was Geology, and of course the Existentialism course.



i'm like you guys too.
i get too caught up in the 'whys' and forget to enjoy life.


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Well I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I find that understanding the 'whys' makes my life more enjoyable yes

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tetragrammaton
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

yeah.
i get what you mean josh..

but we can never know the answers to all life's questions.


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Draginvry
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

tetragrammaton wrote:

but we can never know the answers to all life's questions.


That's what makes it fun.


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kTFox has successfully completed an LD4all Quest!
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Dec, 2007  Reply with quote

Draginvry wrote:
tetragrammaton wrote:

but we can never know the answers to all life's questions.


That's what makes it fun.


Then that would just get annoying, but life is annoying sometimes.


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