EN | NL | FR
Current Wings Quest 126
Lucid Rhymes

skeptics!!!! ugh!!!

Post new topic Reply to topic

Author  Message 
dragongirl
New member
New member
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 May 2009
Last Visit: 09 Jun 2009
 
skeptics!!!! ugh!!!
PostPosted: Sat 30 May, 2009  Reply with quote

has anyone else had to put up with people who practically call you crazy for LD stuff??? i'm very annoyed and really am not sure how to put up with people like this anymore.

back to top
Mew151
Ebil Mew Idol
cookie lover
151
Scribes
Wolfgame
Posts: 2490
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 19 Apr 2019
LD count: %d
Location: Universe............. Favorite Animal: Mew....... Nightmare count: 4
 
PostPosted: Sat 30 May, 2009  Reply with quote

I think this in the wrong forum.

...I personally don't blame them for that. I hardly believed LD's existed last year.



Current LD goal(s): Get a real LD; Shoot fireworks out of my hands; Become top idol

Link to My DJ: www.ld4all.com
back to top
kalyan
rebooting the matrix
Lucid Initiate
28
Scribes
Posts: 98
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Last Visit: 08 Mar 2013
LD count: 500
Location: india
 
PostPosted: Sun 31 May, 2009  Reply with quote

people mostly believe there are LDs. but they dont care about them. they have the "so what?'' attitude. one of my friends told me that non lucid sex is much beeter than lucid sex because you will think that it is real during that time. he thinks lucidity takes awy pleasure from dream expiriences by making you realize they are not real. this leads me to the question "do we lose interest in real life when it is proved that it is not real or as illusory as a dream?

back to top
EllyEve
This is not an apple
Dream Deity
EllyEve has successfully completed an LD4all Quest!
30
Posts: 771
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Last Visit: 09 Jan 2019
LD count: 20+
 
Re: skeptics!!!! ugh!!!
PostPosted: Sun 31 May, 2009  Reply with quote

dragongirl wrote:
has anyone else had to put up with people who practically call you crazy for LD stuff??? i'm very annoyed and really am not sure how to put up with people like this anymore.


LD's have been proven in laboratory settings. I can't even say that this is reasonable, respectable skepticism, like I can say with so many other things. I can respect skepticism for astral projection, predicting the future and stuff-- I can definitely respect disinterest in lucid dreaming, because for years I myself was more interested in the interpreting normal dreams part. Lucid dreaming was just too much work, for what I saw as a lesser goal (than, say, OBE's.)

But,
If they call you crazy for LUCID DREAMING, because lucid dreaming "DOESN'T EXIST," they're... I don't have any other phrase for it. They're just ignorant-- which is bad-- and reveling in their ignorance, which is worse. Hel-lo. I put them in the same category as the "flat earth" people.

And, in that case, calling your crazy isn't a personal attack. Knee-jerk skeptics who just want to feel smarter than the room, without a care for what's True, very likely just scapegoat you because they can't face their real issues constructively.

Just sort of reach inside for the switch that says "care for other people's thoughts" and flick it off.


back to top
Wond3rland
Astral Explorer
Astral Explorer
29
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 29 Sep 2009
LD count: 22
 
PostPosted: Sun 31 May, 2009  Reply with quote

EllyEve, well put. I encounter this dilema daily. I have even talked out-olout and worded the best argument for such a discussion. But that too seems to fall short of opening their eyes. "We sleep for 1/3 of our life. So in basic math, if we leave to be 90.. that is 30 years of unconciousness. No memory, to situations, no recall of anything. With that basic fact how could dreams be interpreted as un-real. Look how time is put into them. We are only awake twice as much as we are asleep. So in my logical way of putting things, if dreams are nothing then we are only awake twice as long as nothing. (1/3 v.s. 2/3)

This one argument I developed should blow peoples minds away. But sadly does not. I will bring it up at work, or around friends and sadly get a look of un interest... soon followed by a dumb story of their drinking binge last weekend. And I just want to throw a knife, metaphorically speaking. Like "WAKE-UP"! Fortunately I view waking people up as God's ultimate responsibility and decision, lifting the burden off of me. Thank GOD, literally.

We have a gift, the missing piece of the puzzle that is TIIME. I want to write a book entitled, "Getting YOURo life back." I want to tackle the social paradigm of working 8 hour days, sleeping 8 hour days and using the remaining 8 to run around between the two. Peoples lives are drifting away from themselves. I see the mass public as a sleeping entity. Only comparable to the Matrix. ONLY COMPARABLE! People what do we do? If I didn't have this forum I would feel utterly alone. Thanks people. I hope this is connected to 2012... in someway, maybe... maybe, dunno?

God is untangeable, for many this makes him un-real. However many things cannot be touched or seen; the wind for example... love, joy, nervousness, or any emotion for that matter. In a worl where people define real as something you can see, I pitty them. For you cannot touch love the most sacred of emotions, is this to not real... uh-oh. This kids, me, is making sense if you care to follow,

*GOD IS LOVE*


back to top
Kava
LD4all addict
LD4all addict
45
Posts: 2510
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Last Visit: 05 Mar 2015
 
PostPosted: Sun 31 May, 2009  Reply with quote

I dont really have a problem with skeptics, because I get plenty of joy out of LDing. I stoped telling people about it, because I would just get mad, because here we have something amazing we can do, but its like nobody cares. I cant believe all the things the human mind is capable of doing. LDing is just one of those, but people are too caught up in there own drama they wont even give it a thought, and it could be life changing. Im not just talking about LDing. Im including (Im sorry I have to say the "M" word. your probley getting sick of me talking about it) meditation, and hypnosis allso. There Ganzfield, and sencory depervation, prayer, God. Everything we need is in side of us, but the government has us all believeing you can only use drugs to heal yourself. So no wonder there are so many closeminded skeptics outthere.
I did get frustrated with people, but I got over it. They dont know what there missing thats all I can say.


back to top
Sonia
COOKIE MONSTER
LD4all addict
Posts: 2970
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Last Visit: 13 Jan 2013
 
PostPosted: Sun 31 May, 2009  Reply with quote

Best thing to do, when you're into a lot of things that are out of the mainstream (think LDs but really this goes for even more out there topics in the realm of spirituality) is to know when to keep quiet about it. Lately I haven't been doing so much in the lucid scene, although i was big into it a couple of years ago.

Thing is, i don't really talk about any of the things I'm really interested with any of the people I know in real life. There may have been one or two that I've known over the past few years that might make good canditates. The people I know just aren't the right audience, period. And that seems to be the same story for a lot of people.

I usually intuit things from the personalities of the people I know and act accordingly so that things go smoothly with them. there are a lot of thoughts and perceptions that i have which i largely keep to myself in the social scene. everyone's got their own interests and drives in life, and really, you just need to go your own way while accepting everyone else's path. ya know?

trust me on this: I know what kava means when he says that other people are frustrating! Indeed they can be; but we have the choice of wasting our energy and getting into negative states of mind by excessively worrying about everyone who is a skeptical arse, or dropping it and focusing on our own needs and interests.


back to top
Posts: 3575
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 29 Nov 2011
LD count: yes
Location: hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare! hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare!
 
PostPosted: Tue 02 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

do not engage !

argument :

hm,
"its very fun to fly in my dreams, I do it weekly, sometimes I jump off of tall buildings and float out of body consciously."

Skeptic : whatsthat whatsthat whatsthat LUCIDITY ISN'T REAL YOU'RE LYING!

actually i went to some forums that had a very different crowd, being aware of being in a dream must be odd to the average person


back to top
29
Chat Mods
Posts: 1444
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Last Visit: 26 Jul 2017
LD count: 13
Location: Hunting...
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

Well to be fair that portrays sceptics in a bad light. Being sceptical can be a good thing, even in relation to lucid dreaming. Stating vehemently that lucid dreaming is not real however, is not scepticism, it is a belief that it is not real. Scepticism would be asking for proof or some form of evidence that something is true. Living without a dose of scepticism would be to accept everything you are told without question. I doubt anybody would say that was a good thing either. wink5

Although I don't agree with the branding of sceptics being like this, I agree it is very frustrating to be greeted with such assumptions. That something is untrue, when the person who makes the statements appears not to have researched the topic at hand. I don't think there is much you can do when that happens, only to say you disagree and leave it at that, maybe try to link them to studies or other relevant information. If you try to prove yourself, I doubt it's likely to lead anywhere productive.



Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
back to top
Drumm
Musician
Somniologist
Posts: 195
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 03 Feb 2015
LD count: 1
Location: Here
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

When I tell my friends about lucid dreaming, they believe that it's real, but they could care less. One of them simply says that he prefers to leave dreams alone, which I can totally respect. But another friend claims that he can have just as good an experience by daydreaming during school! (This is the same friend who is convinced that he sometimes doesn't have any dreams at all.) He refuses to listen when I tell him that LD's actually feel REAL, and daydreaming doesn't make you feel anything at all.
So yeah, I get where you're coming from here. It's REALLY irritating.


back to top
zaret
Dont wanna grow up!
Novice dreamer
38
Posts: 29
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Last Visit: 27 Apr 2010
Location: Disney World
 
PostPosted: Wed 03 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I really don't talk about it, when I was little (6 years) I had many "weird" experiences at night and when I told my parents they though I was crazy. (they even did a sight test at home) So I have learn to keep new experiences that are hard to believe by others to myself. I did questioned my husband if he ever had a dream in wich he realized he was dreaming and he also gave me the crazy looks, so yea me, myself and ld4all.

back to top
shaihulud
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
36
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Last Visit: 31 Mar 2012
LD count: 20
 
PostPosted: Sat 06 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I can really relate to all of you, I am in the same situation. I can understand if they question if it's really possible. I know I didn't believe it was possible while starting to train to have LD, until I finally had one.
What I cannot understand is how can you not be interested in the possibility to do whatever you want and to for the first time communicate with your sub counsciousness. Many of my friends are open to many ideas, many of my friends have used psychedelic drugs, I speak with them about religion, philosophy etc, some of my friends are from the psychedelic trance scene where buddhism and philosophy and most importantly a connection with nature is part of their life.
But when I menion LD and OBE they say they belive me, and they might think they do but they don't really. Thing is they are just not interested. eh
This have annoyed me sooooo much it's not even funny. I have met 1 friend who really believes me and asks me about it, like how's your dreaming goin. She even tried herself but lost interest (!) but that's about it. whatsthat
I agree with what's been said, thanks ld4all for being here!

ps. (I forgot my password and had to create a new colgate )


back to top
Posts: 3575
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 29 Nov 2011
LD count: yes
Location: hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare! hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare!
 
PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

GreenDragon wrote:
Well to be fair that portrays sceptics in a bad light. Being sceptical can be a good thing, even in relation to lucid dreaming. Stating vehemently that lucid dreaming is not real however, is not scepticism, it is a belief that it is not real. Scepticism would be asking for proof or some form of evidence that something is true. Living without a dose of scepticism would be to accept everything you are told without question. I doubt anybody would say that was a good thing either. wink5

Although I don't agree with the branding of sceptics being like this, I agree it is very frustrating to be greeted with such assumptions. That something is untrue, when the person who makes the statements appears not to have researched the topic at hand. I don't think there is much you can do when that happens, only to say you disagree and leave it at that, maybe try to link them to studies or other relevant information. If you try to prove yourself, I doubt it's likely to lead anywhere productive.

hm,

what we are talking about is an attitude of deliberate ignorance (belligerence) and an unwillingness to look into research and an unwillingness to trust the experiences of others ,

which seems either dogmatic or skeptic,
what better words are there?

ignorants, ?

ex : , you are speaking about a dream you had, and describe your consciousness, clarity, lucidity, and what you did within it, even describing your experience of consciously leaving the body to enter the dream-state in the first place

"i don't believe in that" is not a valid answer, because it is a real experience!

i see great goodness in scrutiny and the desire to research and learn, and though skeptic is cut into (positive and negative connotations) deliberate ignorance a yinyang nd vigilance with information ( though not in the dictionary ? ) i cannot think of a good word for someone who is scrupulous in research and learning, for the word skeptic seems to befall a negative conditioning

Quote:
Some skeptics do not believe that there is such a state as lucid dreaming (Malcolm 1959). Skeptics don't deny that sometimes in our dreams we dream that we are aware that we are dreaming.

http://www.skepdic.com/lucdream.html
this is simply a power struggle "no you didn't really just eat an apple, you thought you did" "what are you talking about man i just ate an apple"

it is so very divisive.

that someone is deliberately as conscious in dreaming reality as this one, and that someone refuses to accept this testimony, not good!


back to top
WritersCube
OneiroTron 24.7
cookie lover
31
Posts: 1254
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Last Visit: 15 Feb 2019
Location: Earth
 
PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

For the few years that I've been on LD4All, I've had to deal with skepticism a whole lot due to my Lucid Dreams. Whether or not someone believes it is possible, it doesn't change the fact that I as well as many other individuals can Lucid Dream. As I've said several times in the past, I post my Dream Accounts on this forum simply to share my experiences with others, not to debate whether or not a reader believes in me. The same goes for when I read someone's Dream Accounts, I read them to see what others experience, and to have fun as a fellow Lucid Dreamer.
A skeptic has no place in a forum of people who strive for something that requires self-confidence and belief.
To come here wanting to learn how to lucid dream while being a skeptic about the subject is highly self-defeating.

Kudos to dragongirl for making this topic.



Current LD goal(s): Extended LD of 4-Months Dream Time... when I'm crazy enough to try it LOL
back to top
shaihulud
Novice dreamer
Novice dreamer
36
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Last Visit: 31 Mar 2012
LD count: 20
 
PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

well I don't think we have any skeptics on this forum, the ones who are are healthy skeptical....you should always be a bit sceptical when you here something the first time, don't believe anything people tell you.

I think it's a very human trait, fear of the unknown. When a person hear about such an experience it is very alien to that person, and doesn't fit into hers/his life and beliefs. Hence that person simply rejects it, by fearing it might be true denies the possibility.

I know if someone told be they got abducted by aliens last night I would not believe it, even I know it might be true it is such a change to my world view that I need some "proof" of it's existence before changing my world to fit. People are afraid of changes, more or less.

I can understand the feeling someone with a boxed in lifestyle gets when told this "truth". I thought the same this when I was first introduced to LD'ing. But what I don't understand is the lack of curiosity to find out what if...
It was this curiosity that led me to practising and finally my first LD which came as a shock to me...its all true! even if I know so many people talked about it, and there was so much published books I didn't believe it 100%, just 50% until I had the experience.

Bottom line, people need to be more curios of the world they life in!


back to top
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

print  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB
LD4all ~ spreading the art and knowledge of lucid dreaming online since 1996 ~