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Lucid Living Topic - part II

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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

rubiks_cube_man wrote:
I tried-didnt work

mattias already said it, but repetita iuvant: it's a way of living, an attitude, not a 2- or 3-day technique. Moreover, the very moments you are practicing it are moments worth it and worth living, so just stick with it and enjoy a life more in control; dream controlling will follow.



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marcher22
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

This method works if you stick to it ( or should I say life style) how ever after awhile if it just becomes words and you don't take any meaning to it , it starts to slip into your dreams. The first LDs i had i really was like WOW im lucid dreaming better start jumping off buildings! but when it just became words I had dreams where " This is a dream" but unconscioucly just went along with the dream and didn't bother doing anything cool...

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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

I'd better have read it completely before. Now I have the whole topic on txt file, every single part of it. Seriously, this is easily the most interesting and innovative topic of the whole forum.

The whole discussion here about why the effectiveness of LL / its various forms, its explanations - all of this was really interesting and full of thought, i actually congratulate with every previous poster applaus

If I only think how much of my life i've spent in laser focus mode, ignoring all that surrounded me (if i were involved in something, i wouldn't even hear the shouts of people calling me not farther than 3-4 meters away) sigh . Since i got seriously interested in LD'ing and what comes with it (dream yoga, zen, meditation... all that kind of stuff you can relate to LD with a google search or another), i really started getting more and more control of my life and living it more fully.



When i think of how the world is viewed, i see so much poetry and truth in it:
the world itself is real, and Buddhists say that too, with all the reincarnation and karma laws (there is indeed an external reality, independent form our existance), but still, our perception of the world is completely illusory, with the senses being only a mere representation of what stands in our surroundings (and i see Kant here, too, in all his glory, with his phenomena and noumena), the same kind of illusion of the senses that we percieve when we dream.
When I stop and think I'm dreaming, it's actually stunning how our perception shifts so automatically and quickly to a higher consciousness of what we were doing and what we were percieving - I'm almost scared every time i do it.

When i go on with consciousness in my daily life, simply being aware of what happens inside and outside myself, i can find so many oddities that would be usually dismissed by my mind with a simple acceptance. Just today, i noticed the layout of the fruits/vegetables part in the store i usually go shopping to had changed since last week. I heard my mind saying "Well, ok", while i actually stopped and thought "Wait a minute"; if anyone had seen it in a dream, the morning after he/she would have it surely classified as a dreamsign, so why don't we usually react to it IWL, where we are most conscious? uhh
My toughts would be, our mind is used to justifying, or at least accepting every happening that it witnesses, for the simple fact that we are used to live in reality: how can you think something is impossible if it is happening right in front of our eyes? How can you question reality if you constantly live in it?
If it has happened, there must be an explanation of it, and if it's something big, maybe you'll hear some big scientist talking about it on the radio or in some talk show and he'll put every oddity in its place, no need to waste your time thinking of an explanation by yourself. And that's what we want to dismiss, in every single aspect of our lives.

I wondered if this practice could be tiring, until i saw this topic; for achieving a LD, you can recreate the feeling of "happy awareness" before going to bed, and real awareness is indeed happy. When you are truly aware of what's happening, you find peace in observing in detachment, because you are now in control. You are a lot less likely to get run down by a car, if you have been keeping an eye on it, even just passively; and with control, comes the dropping of the fear of the unknown, the release of that tension we always keep inside, ready to react to the unseen; and with control, you can finally stop that unending chatter going on on the surface of your mind, and finally get peace in silence. I find that's more than enough a reason to be happy turn3 , and if you're happy doing something, why would it bore you?

Sorry for the randomness of toughts, I have so much running through my mind, i'll actually need to split my posts for a more confortable read.

EDIT: Nevermind, i just read the Stop trying to dream topic, and i need to claarify a lot of things.

MORE EDIT: I actually posted my thoghts there (in part 2), and I think they could be relevant (mostly the last paragraph), so feel free to look.



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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

I have enjoyed reading this topic so much, so thanks to all its contributers!

The concepts of lucid living are not new to me, but it was until this moment I heard a word for it.

I am practising art and have done classes. when you try to draw an object in front of you, you have to stare at it and really understand the object. The ball is not a 2d thing, imagine you can see the back as well. And you can see the silhuette because you can see what is behind it etc. When you spend hours looking at a thing you see new things in the details. Very much like when meditating you concentrate you thought on a small thing, maybe the old "a drop of water in the ocean" and the more you think about it the more you become aware of it.
I feel there is a strong connection with this visual practise of lucid living, althou itīs not the same thing.
One very important visuall property is light. And itīs quite a complex thing to understand.
There is a video that helped me very much:
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/185/Pr actical-Light-and-Colo r
Itīs not cheap, but itīs amazing ^^
And there are always other ways to obtain things like this...

When I look at the world around me the knowledge of light increases the quality of what I see because I can understand it, and if you can understand only then can you really question it.
So, this knowledge have very much increased my ablility to live lucid!
I also believe knowledge can increase the complexity of your dreams - as an example I was never able to get a clear look at the garments in my dreams. But as I studied their construcion in reality I could pick up a garment in my dreams and see every stitch and fold...and even learn. I could not have done this before. Itīs a bit off topic but I just wanted to express how important I think knowledge is to a for me heightened awareness, and how you can use it. (however knowing something can also take away the curiosity and the creative process of imagining...but thatīs a whole different topic)


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

Cc wrote:
however knowing something can also take away the curiosity and the creative process of imagining...but thatīs a whole different topic

Good knowledge will never, ever rob you of the wonder, of the amazement torwards the beauty of the subject. If you really are fond of something, no matter how mch you know about it, you can always go for more, curiosity will always bring you to discover, to abstract, to amaze yourself.
Also, imagining is all the better if you know something in detail (and then you know variations of it too ^^ so it's something new every time you look at it, or a similar one)

EDIT: Also, I'm very glad my 200th post was in the LL topic ^^



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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct, 2009  Reply with quote

well that was not really the point of my post, but to give another example, I dreamt that I took a drug and it was one of my most surreal non LD experience. Some time after when I had actually tried the drug (mushrooms) I again dreamt that I took it, but this time the knowledge of what it would be like made the dream experience much duller, following my knowledge rather then my imagination. anyway this is another topic like I said, if you want to discuss Im happy if you PM me smile
oh and I agree what you said by the way ^^


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

If you were in a dream, right now, what would you do? Would you continue going your way, doing the same things as ever, always looking in the same direction, thinking the same thoughts as yesterday?
Next time you walk, in a street, in a park, anywhere, look around you; to the left, behind you, upwards: do you see something new, that tree, that house, that children, that cloud, that you really didn't notice before? Good; now, if that thing was part of your dream, wouldn't you look at in awe, stunned by its sheer existence? Wouldn't you contemplate every leaf, every brick, every movement, every minuscle and general shape, and amaze yourself contemplating the power of your mind? After you wake up, wouldn't you write every single detail down in your DJ, for the only fact that you saw it, you heard it, you smelled it, you touched it, you felt it?
Good news, your mind is doing every single one of these things even now.

When you're in a station, waiting for your train, surrounded by other students, buisnessmen, tourists, goths, hobos, and whatever else, what if it was a dream, right now? Wouldn't you embrace all this heterogeneous mass in a single stare, struck in awe, and wonder how can you brain keep track of all their clothing, all their movements, all their characteristics? But now think: the moment you thought it was a dream, you were doing it as well: their clothes, their faces, their positions and movements were all in your mind at once.

Reality is just a bunch of molecules moving about, colliding with each other, every single one going his way, unaware of the others until collision occurs; it's you that sees the bridge, the oak, the rainbow, the festival, the children playing in the open; it's you and only you that can listen to the bird chirping, the book falling, the old woman laughing. Reality doesn't contemplate itself. It's you that must do it in its place.

And if you think others can interpret reality for you, look at yourself: you even have different ways of looking at the same thing, so how can you pretend different people can look at things, contemplate works, wonder about events, the same exact way as you? Your personal vision is precious as it's unique, so don't waste it: use it as much as possible, feeding it and exercizing it as you use it, so that it will grow bigger, wiser, more aware and all-encompassing, each time you wonder, each time you contemplate, each time you really stop and take your time to give a good look at things.

We live our ordinary lives, and look in amazement at our dreams; but in dreams, you are still interpreting what sensory input is given to you, you are still living what happens around you, so you should be no more amazed than IWL, or better, you should be as amazed while going through your ordinary life.
What we gotta do, is stop living our lives, and start living our dream instead.

Thanks for reading. ^^



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Last edited by tosxyChor on Wed 11 Nov, 2009; edited 1 time in total
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mattias
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

Thanks, Tosxychor. That actually helped me understand better how to Live Lucidly. Although I feel I'll have a hard time reaching that feeling of awe while awake, but now I think I know how to start :D

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Zentaro
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

Wow, now I really understand the whole idea of lucid living.
Thanks Tosxychor ^^


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PostPosted: Mon 09 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

two calibration tools for lucid living are tai chi and yoga
both have the property of allowing you to be immersed in the sensation of sensing, rather than in the confines of the known, which is grey


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

Glad I could help ^^
I was in a particularly good mood at that time; be sure to jolt down notes yourself too during those moments you feel that well, about your emotions, your thoughts, your experiences, so that you might recreate the right feeling just by looking at those notes.
It can be a tremendous morale and confidence boost, looking at how much can you achieve and how in peace with yourself you can be when you really mean it wink
Treasure those moments guys. They'll last much longer if you find a way to remember/share it. That's what I did with that essay, and now that is terrbly useful to me too when I feel meh, to keep going the way I really want.



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Vi
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

I think Lucid Living is one of the most important ideas, period. The effect it would have on the world if everyone practiced it would be tremendous. How many atrocities are committed because people are not thinking for themselves? How many tragic and life-changing mistakes are made because people are simply not thinking? How many people are suffering from depression, unfeeling and withdrawn from the world? How many people feel their lives racing by as they go through their daily routines without thinking?

Imagine a world where people think before they speak, think before they act, are aware of what they are doing. Imagine a world where people do things because they choose to, not out of habit. Where you are acting on the world, rather than it acting on you. Where you taste and feel and smell in three dimensions, aware of how incredible everything is, how everything is.

That is the power of Lucid Living.

I think Tos did an excellent job of describing the impact this can have on happiness. And obviously it has a huge impact on lucid dreaming: holding lucidity in waking life is good practice for holding lucidity in a dream, and for WILDing.

Being lucid constantly is a huge goal, but a good start is staying lucid for just a few minutes. If you can stay lucid for a 20 minute period while doing other things and being distracted, just do that when you go to bed and you should be able to WILD. So I am thinking of lucid living as WILD practice, and I am starting right now.

It is hard, though. I kind of want to start a movement, a way of life that makes it easier to keep it up, with a supportive community. Does anyone know anything like this that exists, and is not affiliated with a religion?


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

Zen is often associated with buddhism, but in itself, it isn't a religion.


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Leeh
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

I really agree with your opinions, Tosxychor.
If you perceive your reality as a dream, you will perceive your dream as a dream.


Another thing, besides paying attention on your environment,
Pay some attention to your feelings, does it feel like a dream?
When you wake up in the morning or recalling your dreams,
That specific feeling of the dream is coming back to you, THIS is the feeling I'm talking about.
I guess that's what naturals do, they just recognise that particular feeling of a dream.
They pay attention to their environment AND their feelings.


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Solaris
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010  Reply with quote

This is a great topic. I've read so many inspirational thoughts by various people. Amazing! ^^

I was unfamiliar with the concept of lucid living until now. I like it, although it seems to mean something different for each person. Personally I think there are many connections between the dream state and waking life. And I recognize some of the points made by others, such as the idea that real life is just as amazing as dreaming. But I wouldn't want to use lucid living as a label for the best way of living.

Some people seem to think lucid living is about becoming aware of yourself and your feelings. They say that this would make you happy. I would disagree. Sometimes is important to think about yourself and place in life, but if you do it to much you will become reactive and eventually depressed.

I think life is all about having the right kind of energy. People are happiest when their energy is positive and directed outwards. If you focus your energy on your environment and the people in it, you can work on actively shaping it. If you focus your energy on yourself and your own awareness, you will focus mainly on your reactions to others. You will have little opportunity to be creative and your reactions will start to become negative.

So again, I like this concept of lucid living. But self awareness as a concept is overrated. It's much more important to be aware of your environment and the people in it.


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