Character Assisted Lucid Dreaming...CALD part VI

Thanks for the quick feedback, I really appreciate it. I did have a couple more questions, though. I’m sorry if this was asked before, but I got lost at about page 5 of part 2 of this massive thread :nuu: .

When you first began with your characters, were you simply having imaginary and/or in-dream conversations with them? Or did you just daydream with them as characters until they were “sentient?”

One last thing, and this might sound a tad weird, but is there anything you would specifically advise against doing when trying to make a character independent?

Hmm, I’m not exactly sure in which way you mean, so I’ll just give you a brief overview of my first months with Crystal. :smile:

Lets see, in the beginning I kinda ‘saw’ myself swordfighting in a dead forest with a white wolf girl. I didn’t pay attention to it, but I saw it a few more times until I decided to use her for CALD. Crystal, as you’ll see, was independent from the get go. Actually, all of my characters were, and most of them were spontaneously generated. You might have seen my account of my character that took form as Gaara in the part 2 thread.

Now, when I was busy, I would just have a conversation in my mind with her, like you might imagine a telepathic conversation to be like. If I was bored someplace like a dinner meeting or something, I would zone out and sort of meditate my way into the forest with my eyes open so that we could talk ‘face to face’. If I was alone, I would usually do a full meditation into the forest and talk with her that way.

Since I’ve never had to ‘make’ a character independent I can’t answer your last question, but hopefully I’ve managed to answer your first one. I don’t know. @_@

Well, I think that answers part of it anyway. Sorry, my mind works in strangely complicated ways >_< . I’m just trying to figure out the best way to make them independent. I suppose starting by talking to them in a lucid dream might be best for me, because anytime I daydream it all seems scripted out.

That’s the part I was mostly wondering about. Am I right in thinking you’ve met your independent characters in dreams, and were able to pull them into wl? (that’s the last question, promise :wink: )

Not at all, Kiba is the only character that’s come from a dream. All of the characters I have though have come into existence in one way or another independently from me. Crystal appeared in daydreams before I created her ‘body’, Foxy walked up to me while I was creating a dreamscape for the Paradiso program, and Silence (Gaara) just appeared and started barking orders at Kiba. So, that might have something to do with my characters’ independence, but it isn’t just because the characters come from dreams that makes them independent. I think it is more based on the minds of each person how long a character takes to gain independence.

Keep the questions coming, the better you understand everything the less you have to reinvent!

(I’m also interested in hearing Talon’s response to this, seeing as how she doesn’t have automatically independent characters like I do.)

wolvendeer: Wow, you’re fast! :stuck_out_tongue: It’s good to see dedication and makes me feel nostalgic when I hear your familiar story ^^

rhewin:
Hey! C: I know the size of this thread can be disorienting, that’s why we encourage asking! ^^ wolvendeer was quite correct about the questions C:.

When I began with my characters, it was daytime conversation after fleshing out their basic beings. After a while, I started roleplaying with my friend, and their personalities fleshed out a bit more. Basically after that, I always saw them in new situations, and their personalities were more tangible-- I then started discussions before bed, and for fun, doing character questionnaires. The most important bit to getting a character sentient for me was to treat them as real people would be… as best as possible, at least ^^; We all know there are physical-nonphysical issues here.
The creator of Bleach (Tite Kubo? I’d have to check the interview again…) has a similar approach in that he treats his character as real people, and gets the detailed chars he has from them. The difference here is that we’re trying to cultivate a sense of sentient understanding in the character, as in Deadpool (who is wickedly awesome and frequently breaks the 4th wall).

Things I specifically advise against? Creating a bad character power dynamic.
What I mean by this is not to ‘glorify’ your character never be the passive individual when dealing with a more aggressive/conceptually dangerous character.

It hasn’t come up yet, but I would advise never to forget that you shouldn’t create a relationship between you and your character that could be harmful (ex. Developing a malevolent character with no intent on assisting and spending precious WL hours with said character).
Otherwise, don’t be tense about your environment or people. Just relax and try to get into a moment with your character without thinking of anything else.

I find that writing down your dialogue (without thinking) with your character is helpful, as you don’t have time to process what you’re about to say, and the scripted feeling disappears over time. I hope that helps some.

Many people have met characters in dreams that they choose to use for CALD, the difficulty is in how to do so.
Some people choose to take the character’s concept into WL and develop it there, where you’d follow standard WL development (dialogues, sometimes character quizzes, and mostly keeping said character in mind and interacting until their personality is tangible). This is personally a technique I’d follow, I’ve had success before in developing a DC by using the fast written dialogue mentioned above to sort of ‘get the character out’ of my memory of my dream.

Oh sorry-- Word wall ^^; I hope it was helpful to you, though. Please ask if you need clarification on anything!

:content:

Yes, like the one character I spoke of way earlier. Silence thought he could control me and have me as a puppet, so I had to put him in his place. Allowing a character to get too big for their britches is something that shouldn’t be done. If they try to twist your arm, assert your power over them. :truit:

An ideal of CALD from Tal

[ Quick summary of below text wall:
-I list off concepts* that CALD was based on
-I briefly discuss the progress of one of my main characters
-I state personal goal for what CALD will become

  • Concepts are mostly: non-physical beings, validity of such beings, the concepts of soul/emotion ]

General CALD note:
I’ve been thinking for a long time about what I’ve wanted CALD to eventually become. The core ideas that I’ve tried to touch on in CALD are further exploration and interaction with non-physical beings, and the validity of created beings.

We are born into this world fortunate enough to have bodies, if characters are created entirely within the minds of their creators, is their existence valid? Why?

What is emotion? Soul? Would it be possible to create a being that possessed either in their own right?

And if the soul cannot be created by man:
Is it possible to have more than one soul in a body? Could it be the life’s challenge of that non-physical being to be born into the mind of another?

I’ve wondered these things while I’ve watched the emotional/mental development of one of my characters over the last 2 years. I’ve watched him grow into understanding of his burden in life, wonder if his own existence was entirely valid, if there would ever be a total freedom of mind from me, and if there was a God. If he was God-made and God-loved. He prays for the blessing of God’s acceptance sometimes.

Our story is of Pinocchio and his Geppetto, but we have no body for him, we have no magic.

What I would love CALD to eventually be is an exploration of the concept of non-physical beings: if such beings can be created with sentience within the scope of our perception and whether or not those beings are valid.

I would want this technique to transcend the boundaries of character development we have now, and be something that helps us to question who/what we are, what defines a soul and emotions!

I would want this tech to provoke thought about how seemingly intangible concepts can be accepted and beneficial.
And for those for whom this could apply (I certainly would like to be one): I’d like this to be an exploration of spirituality and tapping into another facet of non-physical existence.

Woof. I’m pooped out ^^; it feels good to type all that out! I hope we can have some discussion on these, I do so love these concepts and thoughts.
It’s hard to think I started this journey at 13-- and now here I am almost 17! Wow.

~ Wishing happy lucids to all.
Tal

Talon and Wolvendeer, thanks so much for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my questions. I think I have a good understanding now of what I need to do if I’m going to ever make The Doctor more than just a puppet.

And extra thanks to you Talon. I kind of feel good about how this will work out for me. I’ve done a lot of the things you’ve recommended already, but I’ve simply done it in the 3rd person. I guess it’s time to get myself involved.

Thanks again, and I’ll be sure to let you guys know if anything comes from it.

so wait, these characters are created in your LDs? do you literally sculpt them like clay and then teach them to live as an individual?

:yaaawn: One final answer before bedtime. I’ll have to get to Talon’s post tomorrow. It made me-> T_T :smile:

The characters are either taken from characters we see in our dreams or they are created consciously, much like you would create a character that you were going to use in an RP or a story. I think that part you can read the CALD Tutorial in the KB to clarify this with if I’m not providing a really clear answer. As to how we get them to become an individual, I believe for those whose characters aren’t already independent on creation, they will talk to the character for a while, listening fo a response but not providing one if they don’t get one, and try to hear a response back. It will take a while for the characters in these cases to speak, but they will do so on their own time. In cases such as mine, the characters will often pop out fully sentient, and may often surprise you in doing so. Like I said earlier, one of my characters spontaneously appeared and started barking orders at another of my characters! :lol:

I’ve been gone for a day, and this thread has grown loads.

It’s as if my subconscious doesn’t want to me to lucid dream - I still haven’t had a decent lucid dream in months (I’ve had some so-so ones fairly recently), maybe because I didn’t properly get to grips with stabilising a dream. But Talon covered stabilisation in an earlier post - which I thank him for, and will remember to do so during my next lucid. Also, falling asleep too early while trying the technique annoys me as well, because I forget to reality check or my character doesn’t appear.

Last night I was daydreaming an ‘episode’ (that’s what I call them) with my characters - I’m at a really exciting part. However, it’s too exciting I forget to ask them to make me lucid - because I fall asleep too early like mentioned earlier in this post. My ‘episodes’ usually join to make a gigantic story, with one continuing from where I last left off. Hopefully I will continue from where I last left off in a LD, and will enjoy every second of it when it comes.

I’ve just had a thought - I could try VILD, and make up a scenario with my characters, asking me to do a reality check (which makes me lucid) - and when I transition over to the dream my character(s) will be there, and there’s no need to summon them. I’d never thought of this at the time when I was combining the methods. Does anyone think this could work?

Absolutely. I’ve never personally had success with it (well, with VILD at all), but I’m sure anyone who is good at incubation would be able to pull it off nicely. Al a matter of finding what works for you. (Also, thank her, not him.)

thanks for the reply. ive looked at the tutorial and i must try it now so in some way in WL i can feel im making progress. plus im good at drawing so ill use that to bring my character to life as well as other things. as for seeing them in dreams, how does this usually start to happen?

Well, for me it happened quite by accident. One day I had a dream I was laying in bed and had a dream “Foxy” was 6" tall and standing on my hands, complaining about being hungry. :lol: For a number of people here it has been as simple as asking them to come visit you in your dreams, but I think there’s some connection or something that I’m missing to be able to do that. :meh: So, not really the most helpful answer, but I must further investigate.

EDIT - Oh, and PS, you might get a better idea of this by reading parts 1 & 2 of this thread series. There is a lot of reports by people just starting off there.

Okay, I’ll thank ‘her.’ How did I not notice that? :confused:
So yeah, I’ll be trying the method tonight and will hope to succeed. I’ll report what happens tomorrow :smile:

rhewin: No problem, and I hope you gain lots from your engagement with CALD, I’m glad you came around to ask those questions because it clarify things for others C: I’m looking forward to your reply! Best of luck and have fun!

Mourningstarr: Generally the characters are almost always made consciously during WL, and sometimes we take characters from dreams and develop them whilst awake. I like your clay analogy (is that the proper use of that word?) and it is somewhat how it works.
For me character development was a long and engaging progress with my friend while we consistently roleplayed every day. In my times away from her, I’d engage in character development activities as mentioned above C: . I have a few links in my signature that lead to various CALD tools that could be helpful C: . I think a few pages back we thoroughly discussed how to encounter a character in dreams. A quick summary with follow below, but I encourage you to go back and read for more detail C: :

  • Characters may be summoned through setting intent and closing/opening one’s eyes
  • Nearby objects/ DCs may be transformed into the character
  • Characters may be found after commanding the dream to do so
  • Doing through doors/ other passageways and expecting the character to be there

wolvendeer: I have never been able to tell what the T_T emoticon was ^^; I am stuck between interpreting it as an expression of seriousness/annoyance or tears! I’ll take it as a compliment though, cause of the smiley :slight_smile: Looking forward to what you have to say.

Teraflare8866: Personally I think it’d be a great idea. If you have successfully VILDed before, I’m sure it could work. Also, when meeting characters take note of any uncharacteristic behavior-- when I met my characters in dreams, they were always quite a bit different than I perceive them in WL! Good luck! I hope you get great results C:

CALD has always been very interesting to me, but I’ve never really found time to make a character. I recently dreamt about this girl who seemed important, but I didn’t know what to do about it. Then I remembered this thread :content:

When I started creating her, I felt like I already knew everything about her, except her name. So I started up my first conversation. She refused to tell me why she was in my dream, but she told me her name was Jane. It felt very natural.

I’m going to try and use her to induce a LD tonight. :grin:

That’s great to hear C: I’m glad you were able to get Jane out of your dream, best of luck in lucidity induction! I’d personally love to hear how it goes C:

~ Happy lucidity!
Tal

Hey, it’s only been two days but I already have an update :happy:. Last night, as I was falling asleep, I was “talking” to The Doctor in my head (and visualizing it some as well. The closer I am to falling asleep, the more I can see). Well, most of it seemed normal, i.e. I knew what The Doctor would say before he said it and had influence over him. But then, as I got closer to sleep, some things surprised me.

I tried to do a Q&A with him, most of it going just like I was expecting it to. But then I asked him one very deep question. A quick background for those who don’t know, btw, The Doctor is an alien and when he dies, all of his cells regenerate and he turns into a new man with a new personality. The only thing similar is his memories and general sense of right and wrong. Again, my Doctor is The Second Doctor who was forced to regenerate prematurely by his own people. Knowing that, here’s what I asked him.

Me: “So, who wants you to be independent more, me or you?” I was expecting him to say “you, because for now I’m still a part of you.”
The Doctor: “You… no, I do.”
Me: “What?” At this point I could visualize him very clearly
The Doctor: “You know that I actually regenerated a long time ago, but there is still a lot I could do. I’m sure my future regenerations have done a wonderful job at it, but there was so much more for me. The chance to live again, to do good again…”
Me: “I understand… I think. You know your Tenth incarnation will say something similar when he dies?” again, The Doctor answers unexpectedly
The Doctor: “Please don’t tell me. Knowing one’s future… it just makes things a bit pointless, doesn’t it?”

And if that wasn’t enough, later as I was doing a MILD attempt, I began visualizing a dream. In my little visualization, there was a war going on. Out of nowhere, The Doctor grabbed my wrist and said “what are you doing here? It’s dangerous!” He then pulled me to a safe location, and I snapped myself out of my daydream. I was a little shaken that he just… appeared without me thinking of it.

Anywho, I know he’s still a ways from sentience, but I definitely think he and I have already covered some good ground.

Wow, rhewin. That’s fantastic!! :happy:

I remember a couple times I asked my SC (since I don’t have characters :tongue: ) some questions right when falling asleep and also got some really unexpected answers!

I wonder if one could learn to reach this state and then simply focus on the conversation as the dream formed and enter a LD! :confused: