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Rubiks_Cube_Man
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

btw, just returning to the original topic-thats really cool about how your computer turned on, but if that happened to me I would have a heart attack
wow

Also, About coincidence- At one point in my life I beleived I was phycic, so what I did is I tried to turn my rubiks cube randomly in the air and guess what side was on top. The first 50 times or so it didnt work but after that I started guessing right every single time for about 20 times, at which point I wanted to guess wrong because it was scary so I guessed something that I though it wouldnt be but I still guessed right! eek. Continued for about 40 times total and I still kept on guessing right! EEK!

Another thing is my grandma has phycic powers. She can actually make pain go away. When I was littler and hat a toothache I told her I had a toothache and she waved her hands around my head and it stopped hurting! Crazy, eh?


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Kava
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

giospurs wrote:
Kava, the reason why children believe in magic is because they haven't developed the rational skills that an adult has. It's a beautiful state, but it is also a state of ignorance. Believing in too little is ignorant, but so is believing everything you hear about.
All of your reasons for believing in magic are that it will inrich your life, and it is a better state to be in. That may even be true, but I can only believe in something that is true! You've given no reasons to believe in the truth of magic!

It's similar to religious beliefs.
You can believe, like a child, in a higher power watching over you and this may make you happier. But that doesn't make it true. And if your someone that strives to seek the truth, and solve the mysteries of the universe rather than leave them as mysteries then you can't belive in God, you can't believe in magic, unless you have solid scientific rational reasons for doing so.

Do you, Kava?


Im kind of using the word magic pretty loosly, but at the same time not. Ive had many pychic expirances myself, and mindblowing coincidences that I beleive could have the potential of leading me somewhere I thought it was entersting that you said... "Beleiving in something because it enriches your life" Why else would someone beleive in magic, and religion? It reminds me of a quote I heard the other night on the Simpsons... "The real world is for those who cant imagine anything better" This is why I beleive in magic. Im a LDer that in itself holds alot of magic for me I have a magical book I call my dream journal that allows me to LD. Music is magic, and science. Its a perfect example of the two conflicting sides coming togeather. Yes I do have the sole of a child. Not so much a mind of a child, but deffintly a sole. I have crazy ideas, and a wild imagination that has allways given me wonderfull works of art. Sometimes my imagination runs away with me...

If someone beleives they have pychic ability then they probley do. If you say you dont beleive in magic then Im just the same with science. I beleive that all science is magic disected, and turned inside out. Everything is magic. Take music its a rythmic beat mixed with tones that hits the ear, and then realesis chiemicals in the brain creating emotion. At the same time its an artist who channled the angels, and gave it to mankind. Fire was once magic until we evolved enough to figure out the science of how it worked. Everything is magic.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

giospurs wrote:

I'd love to have some non-fluffy scientific links on that subject please! It's definitely something which fascinates me but unfortunately the OP's experiences aren't examples of it. I apologise if I was aggresive about it though.


No worries! I just get frightened of both extremes of this argument, being both a skeptic and someone who's experienced a lot of rather disturbing things first hand. A teacher recommended that I read "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot if I was really interested in ESP, I actually need to finish reading it. You might find thisinteresting. I'll keep looking for some good ones.

Vampirism45 wrote:
...I believe in magic, and not in science.


I'm not quite sure how you can not believe in science. It's only flaw is that it's rules are here to explain the physical world, and I often think that these rules only apply to a world we're familiar with. I'm not too educated in it, but I hear the very smallest parts of the world we have discovered break scientific laws that apply to us. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think science is armed to discover things of a highly metaphysical nature, but it's certainly more than capable of exploring the material world as we understand it.


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Kava
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

I dont mean to speak for vampire, but I think he was using the frase about not beleiving in science loosley allso. Right Vamp..? Anyway I think I know what you mean. If you mean what I think you do your saying more that you have just as much right not believing in science in the same way that it should be understood by someone who dosnt beleive in magic. We beleive in magic like someone beleives in science, its hard for you to understand why someone cant beleive in science, and its hard for us to understand how people cant beleive in magic. Or I could be wrong.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Dark_Heroes_Master wrote:
Another thing is my grandma has phycic powers. She can actually make pain go away. When I was littler and hat a toothache I told her I had a toothache and she waved her hands around my head and it stopped hurting! Crazy, eh?


Placebo? Watch me!

: 3 I'm such a party pooper. Not to say it can't happen, but the placebo effect is rather miraculous itself.


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Vampirism45
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Kava wrote:
I dont mean to speak for vampire, but I think he was using the frase about not beleiving in science loosley allso. Right Vamp..?

Yeah I was using that phrase loosely. What I mean is that Science is still good for explaining certain things, and most of the time it tends to be right, but it will deliberately ignore things it cannot prove and it calls everyone who believes these things either over-imaginative or insane. Which is why I disbelieve and distrust science at times. It's not as if I disbelieve all of it.



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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

this thread is an illumination of the principle of conflicting, contrasting, and intersecting beliefs ,

if you have abilities , would you really want rampant skeptical people to follow you around with pen and paper in hand ?

if you want support and upliftment and connection to others who are similar , i would say to talk about it on a forum that is more spiritual in nature, rather than here

method to attain psychic powers as a byproduct of infinite bliss have been psoted here by me in the "yoga thread " , and are not kept secret ,

however, the amount of discipline it takes to attain the vibratory level of being one with the universe is quite high

it takes a soul saying, this breathing method sounds perfect, i am going to do it at least 2 hours a day , as instructed in the texts ,

when you are one with the vibratory spin of anything you direct your focus upon, you can move it,

BUT THE REAL POINT IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Kava wrote:
Were you talking to me Colors? Im not sure who that was addressed to, Im not trying to step on any nonbeleivers toes. I was just trying to stress the importence of going through life close minded.


Commendable yes, but unfortunately you are implying those that believe differently to you, or disbelieve all together are close minded. This needn't be the case, since it assumes non-believers dismiss the claim without due thought. An assumption which is both dangerous and untrue. It fires up many people who base their belief systems off scientific method, because the fundamental requirement to that is that you conduct the experiment genuinely and without attempting to influence the result, that you be open minded to either result. It's far from close minded of them to hold an opinion based off how they understand things to work. They're perfectly open to having that view changed, just not in the same way you change yours.

giospurs wrote:
Kava, the reason why children believe in magic is because they haven't developed the rational skills that an adult has. It's a beautiful state, but it is also a state of ignorance. Believing in too little is ignorant, but so is believing everything you hear about.
All of your reasons for believing in magic are that it will enrich your life, and it is a better state to be in. That may even be true, but I can only believe in something that is true! You've given no reasons to believe in the truth of magic!


I think kava has a valid point about looking at the world with a sense of awe and wonder. However, I do not believe you have to believe in magic, god or anything supernatural to do so. I don't need to think about how a tree came to be, to appreciate its beauty, or admire how well the ecosystem works together to promote life, etc. In fact it grants me more freedom, I can sit in awe of our own accomplishments as a species, this computer I use right now never ceases to be amazing to me.

Vampirism45 wrote:
I see that this topic has turned into a completely different conversation, so I might as well add to it. Giospurs, what you mentioned about ignorance is completely true. I believe science is ignorant, since it believes far too little. If science cannot disprove something, it says that there is nothing to disprove. It refuses to admit that certain things exist. Which is why I hardly trust science. So there is infact a reason to believe in magic. That reason is because science cannot be trusted. The only thing that can be trusted then, is magic, which is one of the things that science refuses to acknowledge the existence of. Does magic ever fail anyone? Magic certainly has never failed me, unlike science.


Does magic give you blood transfusions if you are involved in an accident? does magic allow the intense farming techniques used to support a massive population that would be unsustainable without them? Does magic deal with waste removal and processing? I'm not intending to attack your beliefs here, but what you just said was incredibly rude towards a mode of thought which has allowed you the time to think, formulate and hold the views you do. Without science, you'd spend your time fighting to live, not thinking about the meaning or worth of life. What you believe is your domain, but please, show a little respect and appreciation towards the wonderful achievements science has made. The same goes to you Kava. It doesn't matter how 'loosely' you claim this statement is being made. The fact is it has been made.

Presence of Light wrote:
if you have abilities , would you really want rampant skeptical people to follow you around with pen and paper in hand ?


The irony is, you criticise these people. What do you think they are trying to achieve? To debunk you? No, they're trying to disprove OR prove the existence of such phenomena. You may not agree with their methods, but you can't deny that they are genuine in their intentions; at least when they start out. Perhaps in time they become jaded after being called many irritating things by 'believers' (they are only human) or hearing the same things cited that they have exhaustively researched and found no proof of, but that's a topic for another discussion.

--------

As for my own views on this topic, I'm neutral. I've seen and experienced enough to make me curious. I wouldn't say it was all coincidence, it happens too often in my opinion, however, there are a few explanations which are also valid. Such as our minds are great at sifting through information, and theorising and imagining what will happen, based on very tiny cues. These psychic premonitions, could be the result of intense processing on tiny cues we don't see consciously. I'm still not sure though. Stuff like, everyone's breathing sounds different, as do many of the mundane sounds we don't consider, like coughing. (The sound of the cough, runs in the family from what I've seen.) This could go a long way to explaining 'sensing a presence' and such. It doesn't take away any of the magic in it for me though, it just makes me more impressed with the capacities and capabilities of our minds.



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GOB
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Nice post, Greendragon.
It's important not to characterise science as a force of making everything less wondrous and awe-inspiring. Looking at the world around us is even more awesome when you bear in mind how everything works.
I think that just looking at nature and thinking that it was made by God or magic or whatever, is, in mystifying nature, actually making it far less interesting. As you said Greendragon, a scientific thinker can appreciate a flower aesthetically but also on the microscopic level of how it all works to allow the flower to grow and live, and on the macroscopic level of how the plant's life fits into the evolutionary chain or how it helps other species to live. The world is brought to life by science.


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Colors
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Kava wrote:
Were you talking to me Colors? Im not sure who that was addressed to, Im not trying to step on any nonbeleivers toes. I was just trying to stress the importence of going through life close minded.


Hmmm no I was talking to Vamp to tell him that when he shares an experience he should be careful of the words he choose to describe what he experienced because others might think the words he used were too strong to describe what happened.
And also because, since he used the word "psychokynesics" to describe something that happens to a lot of other people, he appeared as someone naive.

Things like this happens a lot, even if sometimes people don't notice it or don't give it any credit, speaking of coincidence.
It's like when you say something and your friend says the exact same words at the same moment, anyone has a different opinion on this.
The thing is, no use to use big words such as to say something that sounds like "oh my god what should I do I think I have superpowers ?"

So it's just a choice of words. It's like saying I'm an genius artist just because I know who to draw when others don't. No use to use such big words. If you are curious, you should always be calm and patient, especially if you're not on expert on the subject.

I mean of course strange supernatural things happen all the time. It all depend of what words you choose to describe it.

But saying a mouse is an elephant it a bit naive smile
Ok I think I made my point lol Preaching is not my intent...



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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Kava wrote:
I think coincidences are something bigger then just a simple coincidence espesaly if the odds are like one in a million.


Imagine you're in a situation where there is a 1 in a million chance that two things will happen coincidentally in the next minute. Now, there are about 6 billion people in the world, and so by the laws of chance that 1 in a million coincidence will happen to 6000 people every minute. Since there are 1440 minutes in a day, that means in a single day this 1 in a million coincidence will happen to 8,640,000 people.

That's just for one specific conincidence. If you think about all of the thousands and thousands of possible coincidences that could occur, I don't think it's too unlikely that every so often a 1 in a million coincidence will happen to you.


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GOB
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

Dreamer wrote:
Kava wrote:
I think coincidences are something bigger then just a simple coincidence espesaly if the odds are like one in a million.


Imagine you're in a situation where there is a 1 in a million chance that two things will happen coincidentally in the next minute. Now, there are about 6 billion people in the world, and so by the laws of chance that 1 in a million coincidence will happen to 6000 people every minute. Since there are 1440 minutes in a day, that means in a single day this 1 in a million coincidence will happen to 8,640,000 people.

That's just for one specific conincidence. If you think about all of the thousands and thousands of possible coincidences that could occur, I don't think it's too unlikely that every so often a 1 in a million coincidence will happen to you.


I've tried to explain exactly what you've said to so many people over the years, but I've never been able to put it is succintly and convincingly as you just have. People love to think that there is something about them that makes them special and different to everyone else, but really coincidences are happening all the time, so the fact that it happens to you every now and again is of no significance.


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Colors
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

hahaha Kava and Giospurs will now banish the expression "what were the odds ?" from english language wink5


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

giospurs wrote:
I've tried to explain exactly what you've said to so many people over the years, but I've never been able to put it is succintly and convincingly as you just have.


Thanks smile


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Mourningstarr
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2010  Reply with quote

thank you kava and few others. this is why you respect your elders.

science vs magic.. just another case of day trying to submit the night because the night won't show its true colors. day originated from the same place as night, so although separated at birth, their the only two who can understand and quarrel with eachother.

the second you divide them from the original power is the second you step off the path of containing them both.
..think about it the next time your having sex, its give and take.

also Vamp, give it a few years your veiws should change and if not you might find yourself blind, the one thing you might feel invincible from right now.


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