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Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?

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morepurple
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Jesus is actually god according to the bible, or, well, the incarnation of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_%28Christian ity%29

The importance of dreams is an interesting thing. I heard graham hancock or one of the mckenna-brothers talk about a tribe in an interview which every day got together and everyone told the dreams they had had(if any). Then they interpreted the meaning of the dreams and planned what to do in the future smile

I don't think the interview's on youtube anymore as Theduderinok's channel got banned.


btw, OP:

Quote:

Let me preface this by stating that I am a Christian and I believe Jesus Christ to be God the Father made flesh.

then..->
Quote:
So I am wondering if Jesus used his REM periods of sleep to directly commune with the Father.


Your post doesn't make sense: If anything, you're limiting the powers of a -in the bible- presumed omnipotent entity saying he is dependent on dreams. By then saying it, to you, "creates incredible potential", are you suggesting anyone could become god, including yourself?

I'm not a christian.


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Lucid_Sockhat
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I think it's a fascinating question. For Jesus' sacrifice to be valid, he had to be perfect, untainted by sin. So he had a PERFECT brain to dream with.

What sort of dreams does a perfect brain have?

I like this field of contemplation.


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pdiddles03
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Re: Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?
PostPosted: Wed 07 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Perpetual Lucidity wrote:
Let me preface this by stating that I am a Christian and I believe Jesus Christ to be God the Father made flesh.

Now....

We know Jesus slept. And due to the human mind's built-in processes, he had to also experience REM sleep for part of each sleep period.

I find the idea of Jesus's dreams to be quite intriguing. God became flesh and experienced the entire range of human experience, and I believe that includes dreams.

However, that doesn't mean that he experienced them in the same way as most of us dream (most of us not on this forum anyway ).

Dreams have obvious importance throughout scripture, so it is curious that nothing is really revealed to us about the content of Jesus's dreams, or the way in which he dreamed.

Obviously, with the gospel being delivered as 2nd hand accounts, and although believed to be the word of God, the authors didn't have access to that part of Jesus's human experience unless he explicitly told them about it. And from the snapshots of his life that did get recorded, there is not much to go on.

So I am wondering if Jesus used his REM periods of sleep to directly commune with the Father. Certainly, in prayer, he had this ability, but it was more meditative, while still being aware of his surroundings. But in his dreams, he no longer had to bother with the external distractions of sensory inupt. Instead, he had open to him the full virtual senses that the brain creates as part of the virtual environment of our dreamworld.

This, to me, creates an incredible potential.

I believe Jesus would have had the self-awareness to become fully conscious in his dreams about his purpose and his true reality, and not bumble along as part of some convoluted plot as most of us do each night when we dream. I believe He was still in control. And along with that control came the ability to choose what happened in his dreamworld.

What are the implications of these kinds of thoughts for other lucid dreamers who believe in Jesus?

<mod>Moved from Lucdi Adventures</mod>


I find that when i read about "visions" and "dreams" in the bible, that they strike me as Lucid dreams. because it always seems that they are very aware in them. what do you think?

I don't doubt people have physicaly seen parts of God. but it seems sometimes like when God spoke to certain people that he showed himself to them in dreams. it's kinda facinating


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arne saknussemm
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

If he was the boss's son, why would he need to sleep or go to the bathroom or anything like that?

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Lucid_Sockhat
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

The way I understand it is he would have had to be flesh and blood human in order to give his life to replace the perfect life that was lost through Adam.

It was Adam who sold mankind into sin and death so it would be Jesus who would cover the loss of a perfect life with the sacrifice of a perfect life.

That's why you don't see the animal sacrifices in church as outlined in the Mosaic Law. They are no longer necessary. The Mosaic Law's animal sacrifices provided temporary forgiveness of Adamic sin. An animal's life cannot completely cover the loss of a perfect life. Jesus' death filled the legal requirement and made complete acquittal of sin possible.

If Jesus just faked his death, remaining a powerful spirit being, the legal requirement would not have been met and God could then be accused of not holding to his own standards of justice.


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Sonia
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Maybe he was a lucid dreamer in the sense that this was the dream, and he knew it.

How else would you explain "miracles," in the same way that we create miracles of our own in our dreams?

All hypothetically speaking, of course... grin


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pdiddles03
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Sonia wrote:
Maybe he was a lucid dreamer in the sense that this was the dream, and he knew it.

How else would you explain "miracles," in the same way that we create miracles of our own in our dreams?

All hypothetically speaking, of course... grin


I believe what he said. It wouldn't be the truth if it was a dream.


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Perpetual Lucidity
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PostPosted: Fri 09 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for your great responses!

@Vampirism45 – “If he actually did this, he would have told other people about those dreams, since back then, a lot of importance was placed on dreams, especially those sent by the "Most High". If you look through the Old Testament, you will find that all the Lucid Dreams the prophets had were written there, since they no doubt told everyone around them about those dreams.”

I don’t think you can assume that Jesus told his disciples everything. Especially when it comes to his innermost thoughts. Much of what is recorded of Jesus’s words is veiled in metaphors through parables. And even then, it is a second-hand account recorded decades after his death and resurrection. So given that scenario, and add in any other records regarding Jesus’s life that were omitted from the bible or destroyed before the canonization process took place, there is plenty of room for additional experiences of Jesus that didn’t get written down, preserved, and translated into the modern-day bible. Take for instance the missing information regarding Jesus’s entire childhood and teenage life experiences. And REM sleep periods are longer during our younger years…

@morepurple – “I heard graham hancock or one of the mckenna-brothers talk about a tribe in an interview which every day got together and everyone told the dreams they had had(if any). Then they interpreted the meaning of the dreams and planned what to do in the future”

I think you are referring to the Senoi. They place a huge social significance on their dreams and even act out their dreams IWL with one another to add visual aid.

“Your post doesn't make sense: If anything, you're limiting the powers of a -in the bible- presumed omnipotent entity saying he is dependent on dreams. By then saying it, to you, "creates incredible potential", are you suggesting anyone could become god, including yourself?”

I’m certainly not saying that Jesus was dependent on dreams to talk to God. I believe that Jesus was in constant communication with God during his entire time on earth. Through prayer, meditation, AND through sleep. The difference between the first two and the dream-state is that Jesus would have been able to shut outside sensory input off and have a physical experience through his virtual senses. Call it an OBE or a Lucid Dream, but feeling like your are actually there communing God, your senses intact, would be a dramatically different experience than prayer. Especially since prayer doesn’t involve any auditory or visual feedback (in this day and age at least). Prayer can result in feelings of fulfillment and comfort, but in a dream, you could actually hear God speaking through your subconscious and leading you to insights about knowledge you didn’t already have.

@Lucid_Sockhat – “For Jesus' sacrifice to be valid, he had to be perfect, untainted by sin. So he had a PERFECT brain to dream with. What sort of dreams does a perfect brain have?”

That is a great observation. If sin is possible in dreams, and Jesus was sinless, then he would have conquered the biggest obstacle (for me at least) to pursuing deeper, more meaningful lucid dreams. That being any wish-fullfillment, fantasy, or hypothetic scenario that would be selfish in any way would be avoided, leaving Jesus the opportunity to focus on where else Lucid Dreams can lead us. I just finished Robert Waggoneer’s book Lucid Dreaming – Gateway to the Inner Self and it explores many deeper purposes of Lucid Dreaming after one has gotten past the self-centered phase of “doing whatever one wants” and focusing back inward at oneself. Many of us never get that far to begin with, but I think that was Jesus’s starting point.

@pdiddles03 – “I find that when i read about "visions" and "dreams" in the bible, that they strike me as Lucid dreams. because it always seems that they are very aware in them. what do you think?”

That has a lot of truth in it for me. Although the bible doesn’t explicitly state that the various dreams of people like Jacob, Daniel, kings, prophets, and others were conscious of their dreamstate, they certainly seemed to have their wits about them in many instances and didn’t bumble along aimlessly like we do in our normal dreams. And if God speaking to you in a dream would be a powerful trigger to make you realize you were dreaming.

Jesus was also a deep sleeper. He remained peacefully undisturbed during a huge storm out on a boat, while his disciples panicked all around him. And when they woke him up, he was annoyed. It was recorded that he showed disappointment in their lack of faith that God would not allow even the environmental weather to put his Son at risk until his time came to be crucified. But I can really identify with his annoyance of being waken from a good dream, especially if that was a lucid dream.

One last note, I posted something similar to this in a “Christian Forum” and was basically told by multiple people with 3000+ posts to their name that I was entering dangerous territory for even speculating on this topic. That dreams are not meant to be controlled, and that I was opening myself up to the evil one for considering these radical ideas. Well, I consider myself a pretty open-minded Christian and don’t believe evil can posses you unless you invite it. And I consider lucid dreams to be a gift from God, and a potential gateway to further spiritual enlightenment. God wants us to ask questions and certainly wants us to use our gifts, not squander them.

Keep the responses coming!

Perpetual Lucidity


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Perpetual Lucidity
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I know this thread is dying, but I just wanted to postulate one more idea....

Jesus had the ability to effectively morph tangible reality by healing lepers, curing the blind, and curing the various physical maladies of his day. I wonder if these powers were so pervasive, that he would absolutely START and END all his dreams in a lucid state, as a precation, in case his actions in his dreams would manifest real results!

Sure, sleep paralysis would prevent him from walking around and interacting with people, but what if his healing abilities operated on a totally differnent plane of existance? Unaffected by sleep paralysis, they could have unpredictable consequences unless Jesus had full control of his faculties during his dreams...

Just sayin.....I know this isn't going to change anything....but its still fun to think about siiw


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Lucidism
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Interesting idea. We have no way of knowing, of course, but it's not far fetched to think he may have done some interesting things with dreams. Maybe even visiting others in their dreams too.

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