Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?

Wow…I kind of hoped for a discussion given the open minds I’ve encountered on these forums before, but apparently the only replies are negative and aim to kill the topic rather than offer anything else.

Yes, there is no way to know for sure. And sure, it doesn’t matter in the slightest if Jesus had lucid dreams or not. I just figured if he had dreams, they were probably lucid given the control over waking reality that he displayed.

I thought this idea may have been work tossing back and forth, since He was the only human that displayed dream-like control over real reality.
But I digress…

Hey, I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. I’m not trying to “kill” the topic, just that there is no clue about Hi’s dreams… It very interesting to know if “God” has LD’s or not. But still, it’s not something for us to find out. I think this is getting too deep into spirituality… The human brain is amazing, indeed. But still there are some things that it can’t and simply CAN’T understand, and we need to understand that :wink:

Though I did indeed try to “kill” the topic. There is no meaning in discussing a topic like this. You can go “Since Jesus could control things when awake, he must have been able to do so in his dreams as well”, and I’ll go “Ok.” - OR I go “I think he had normal dreams like any other person”, and then you’ll try to convince me what you think is true (It’s what Christians do best) with “What I’m saying makes more sense”, and then I’ll go “Ok.” - End of discussion. There are no arguments one could possibly make, and therefor no discussion is possible.

This has nothing to do with open minds :smile: The rest of us has simply seen enough threads to know which ones wont lead anywhere.
I like the observation though - It’s indeed a fun thought to play with.

That’s a bit more of what I was expecting. And you are right. There isn’t any space to have a good old-fashioned debate about this topic. But that doesn’t mean it still couldn’t be explored or hypothosized about. It doesn’t have to go anywhere. I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. I certainly am not trying to convince anyone of anything, nor make you believe any way in particular. I only stated my beliefs to give a reference point to my thoughts on the topic. It seemed more relevant if you knew up front I believe Jesus is also God.

I see plenty of ridiculous topics on any number of way-far out there subjects, but I wouldn’t consider any of them meaningless. Not just because it was significant enough to somebody to think about and then post about, but because the very act of reflection gives a topic at least a hint of meaning to that individual.

Thanks for the responses anyway, even if it was to this dead-end topic :tongue:

I’ve been thinking way too much about this, and here’s the way I see it. Dreaming, he would have no contact with the world. I can’t think of anything he could do from a dream consistent with his powers as shown in the Gospels. There would also be far more temptations in a dream. With no social constraints, it would be very easy to give into fantasies of lust or aggression. And since he said that lusting after a woman is as bad as committing adultery…

So I just see it as significant risk for unsubstantial gain. He probably wouldn’t have taken advantage of this, though he easily could have.

“With no social constraints, it would be very easy to give into fantasies of lust or aggression”

That is one of the main things I have been struggling with regarding this issue! Jesus lived his waking life without sin, but does that also include his dream life? Or for that matter, are we capable of sin while we are dreaming? I know I have done plenty of sinful things while having normal dreams, but I didn’t control myself in those situations and was basically along for the ride. Would that still be considered sin?

But in fully lucid dreams where I chose to live out a fantasy…? I can imagine Jesus resisting this temptation, but it isn’t easy for the rest of us.

It’s getting slightly interesting :content: . I think, that in an LD, you are capable to sin. And you are capable to sin even worse than IRL. Why do I think this ? Because IRL things happen and you mostly can’t do anything about it. In a LD you are the one “who makes rules”, and you can have some “Rules” very sinfull. But what you do isn’t real, so I’m not sure about it anyways, I didn’t experience this in a LD yet… But if you do bad things in a ND it’s deffinetly not a sin, because you can’t do anything about it.
When I’m in a LD, I feel like “Be very carefull what you do !”. I established some goals for myself in case I have an LD. The very first goal is to… meet someone I allways wanted to meet. I also wish to be in a small but luxury town and have adventures there… that’s not a sin. I suggest to everyone to arange some goals in case they have an LD to be sure what they want to do…

Sorry for the long post :shy:

This is not always true. In one ND I had, I had perfect control of my logical faculties and chose to murder two girls anyway. One could certainly argue that my actions were justified, but it is a sin nevertheless. Even if you do think killing would be okay in that situation, the point is that my reasoning was unimpaired and that I could certainly do something about it, so sinning is certainly possible even if it wasn’t the case in that particular situation.

I think he was a clever guy that was high as a kite.

I don’t believe that Jesus was a Lucid Dreamer, because if he had Lucid Dreams, he would no doubt communicate with God. (Jesus himself is not God, but the son of God) If he actually did this, he would have told other people about those dreams, since back then, a lot of importance was placed on dreams, especially those sent by the “Most High”. If you look through the Old Testament, you will find that all the Lucid Dreams the prophets had were written there, since they no doubt told everyone around them about those dreams.

Jesus is actually god according to the bible, or, well, the incarnation of God.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnatio … tianity%29

The importance of dreams is an interesting thing. I heard graham hancock or one of the mckenna-brothers talk about a tribe in an interview which every day got together and everyone told the dreams they had had(if any). Then they interpreted the meaning of the dreams and planned what to do in the future :smile:

I don’t think the interview’s on youtube anymore as Theduderinok’s channel got banned.

btw, OP:

then…->

Your post doesn’t make sense: If anything, you’re limiting the powers of a -in the bible- presumed omnipotent entity saying he is dependent on dreams. By then saying it, to you, “creates incredible potential”, are you suggesting anyone could become god, including yourself?

I’m not a christian.

I think it’s a fascinating question. For Jesus’ sacrifice to be valid, he had to be perfect, untainted by sin. So he had a PERFECT brain to dream with.

What sort of dreams does a perfect brain have?

I like this field of contemplation.

I find that when i read about “visions” and “dreams” in the bible, that they strike me as Lucid dreams. because it always seems that they are very aware in them. what do you think?

I don’t doubt people have physicaly seen parts of God. but it seems sometimes like when God spoke to certain people that he showed himself to them in dreams. it’s kinda facinating

If he was the boss’s son, why would he need to sleep or go to the bathroom or anything like that?

The way I understand it is he would have had to be flesh and blood human in order to give his life to replace the perfect life that was lost through Adam.

It was Adam who sold mankind into sin and death so it would be Jesus who would cover the loss of a perfect life with the sacrifice of a perfect life.

That’s why you don’t see the animal sacrifices in church as outlined in the Mosaic Law. They are no longer necessary. The Mosaic Law’s animal sacrifices provided temporary forgiveness of Adamic sin. An animal’s life cannot completely cover the loss of a perfect life. Jesus’ death filled the legal requirement and made complete acquittal of sin possible.

If Jesus just faked his death, remaining a powerful spirit being, the legal requirement would not have been met and God could then be accused of not holding to his own standards of justice.

Maybe he was a lucid dreamer in the sense that this was the dream, and he knew it.

How else would you explain “miracles,” in the same way that we create miracles of our own in our dreams?

All hypothetically speaking, of course… :grin:

I believe what he said. It wouldn’t be the truth if it was a dream.

Thanks to everyone for your great responses!

@Vampirism45 – “If he actually did this, he would have told other people about those dreams, since back then, a lot of importance was placed on dreams, especially those sent by the “Most High”. If you look through the Old Testament, you will find that all the Lucid Dreams the prophets had were written there, since they no doubt told everyone around them about those dreams.”

I don’t think you can assume that Jesus told his disciples everything. Especially when it comes to his innermost thoughts. Much of what is recorded of Jesus’s words is veiled in metaphors through parables. And even then, it is a second-hand account recorded decades after his death and resurrection. So given that scenario, and add in any other records regarding Jesus’s life that were omitted from the bible or destroyed before the canonization process took place, there is plenty of room for additional experiences of Jesus that didn’t get written down, preserved, and translated into the modern-day bible. Take for instance the missing information regarding Jesus’s entire childhood and teenage life experiences. And REM sleep periods are longer during our younger years…

@morepurple – “I heard graham hancock or one of the mckenna-brothers talk about a tribe in an interview which every day got together and everyone told the dreams they had had(if any). Then they interpreted the meaning of the dreams and planned what to do in the future”

I think you are referring to the Senoi. They place a huge social significance on their dreams and even act out their dreams IWL with one another to add visual aid.

“Your post doesn’t make sense: If anything, you’re limiting the powers of a -in the bible- presumed omnipotent entity saying he is dependent on dreams. By then saying it, to you, “creates incredible potential”, are you suggesting anyone could become god, including yourself?”

I’m certainly not saying that Jesus was dependent on dreams to talk to God. I believe that Jesus was in constant communication with God during his entire time on earth. Through prayer, meditation, AND through sleep. The difference between the first two and the dream-state is that Jesus would have been able to shut outside sensory input off and have a physical experience through his virtual senses. Call it an OBE or a Lucid Dream, but feeling like your are actually there communing God, your senses intact, would be a dramatically different experience than prayer. Especially since prayer doesn’t involve any auditory or visual feedback (in this day and age at least). Prayer can result in feelings of fulfillment and comfort, but in a dream, you could actually hear God speaking through your subconscious and leading you to insights about knowledge you didn’t already have.

@Lucid_Sockhat – “For Jesus’ sacrifice to be valid, he had to be perfect, untainted by sin. So he had a PERFECT brain to dream with. What sort of dreams does a perfect brain have?”

That is a great observation. If sin is possible in dreams, and Jesus was sinless, then he would have conquered the biggest obstacle (for me at least) to pursuing deeper, more meaningful lucid dreams. That being any wish-fullfillment, fantasy, or hypothetic scenario that would be selfish in any way would be avoided, leaving Jesus the opportunity to focus on where else Lucid Dreams can lead us. I just finished Robert Waggoneer’s book Lucid Dreaming – Gateway to the Inner Self and it explores many deeper purposes of Lucid Dreaming after one has gotten past the self-centered phase of “doing whatever one wants” and focusing back inward at oneself. Many of us never get that far to begin with, but I think that was Jesus’s starting point.

@pdiddles03 – “I find that when i read about “visions” and “dreams” in the bible, that they strike me as Lucid dreams. because it always seems that they are very aware in them. what do you think?”

That has a lot of truth in it for me. Although the bible doesn’t explicitly state that the various dreams of people like Jacob, Daniel, kings, prophets, and others were conscious of their dreamstate, they certainly seemed to have their wits about them in many instances and didn’t bumble along aimlessly like we do in our normal dreams. And if God speaking to you in a dream would be a powerful trigger to make you realize you were dreaming.

Jesus was also a deep sleeper. He remained peacefully undisturbed during a huge storm out on a boat, while his disciples panicked all around him. And when they woke him up, he was annoyed. It was recorded that he showed disappointment in their lack of faith that God would not allow even the environmental weather to put his Son at risk until his time came to be crucified. But I can really identify with his annoyance of being waken from a good dream, especially if that was a lucid dream.

One last note, I posted something similar to this in a “Christian Forum” and was basically told by multiple people with 3000+ posts to their name that I was entering dangerous territory for even speculating on this topic. That dreams are not meant to be controlled, and that I was opening myself up to the evil one for considering these radical ideas. Well, I consider myself a pretty open-minded Christian and don’t believe evil can posses you unless you invite it. And I consider lucid dreams to be a gift from God, and a potential gateway to further spiritual enlightenment. God wants us to ask questions and certainly wants us to use our gifts, not squander them.

Keep the responses coming!

Perpetual Lucidity

I know this thread is dying, but I just wanted to postulate one more idea…

Jesus had the ability to effectively morph tangible reality by healing lepers, curing the blind, and curing the various physical maladies of his day. I wonder if these powers were so pervasive, that he would absolutely START and END all his dreams in a lucid state, as a precation, in case his actions in his dreams would manifest real results!

Sure, sleep paralysis would prevent him from walking around and interacting with people, but what if his healing abilities operated on a totally differnent plane of existance? Unaffected by sleep paralysis, they could have unpredictable consequences unless Jesus had full control of his faculties during his dreams…

Just sayin…I know this isn’t going to change anything…but its still fun to think about :cool:

Interesting idea. We have no way of knowing, of course, but it’s not far fetched to think he may have done some interesting things with dreams. Maybe even visiting others in their dreams too.