 |
Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 359
Joined: 21 May 2012
Last Visit: 24 May 2013
LD count: Not counting
Location: Eastern shore of maryyyyyland
| | |
|
|
 Posted: Thu 19 Jul, 2012 |
 |
|
"I agree that the question originates in subjectivity and seeks to uncover answers for myself (and anyone having similar thoughts). I specifically chose the word "I" and "me" to discern that. However, change is objective. What you and I think is best for ourselves will eventually change. You eat an apple long enough, and you'll get sick of it. I think the same is true with fulfilling desires in dreams without meaning or purpose. "
There is no absolute wants or needs. Maybe some things are better than other things. But you see that by thinking the fullfilment of Desires without meaning is bad or not right, your only thinking what you want to think. And that thought influences yur actions. Your just doing what you want, and your unsure in you beliefs, which seems to be why you made this thread. You see you have no absolute reason to be sure that fufilment of desires with out meaning is bad or good. Yet you still feel the way you do. Nothing really matters, maybe in a paradoxical way, thats why doin what you think you want is all that matters?
If after a while apples start to taste bad, you switch to oranges. But after a while they too could start to taste bad. Apples oranges, meaning or no meaning in dreams, it really does not matter. In terms of subjectivity, wright=wrong
Current LD goal(s): Have fun
|
|
|
|  |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
26 |
Posts: 95
Joined: 09 May 2012
Last Visit: 20 Mar 2013
Location: Canada
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thu 19 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
I agree with the premise that lucid dreaming is natural. My qualm is with the basic intention influencing the decision of what to do with lucidity. But I'm starting to think it's a bit more like a balancing act: one dream you might need to be lucid and trying to understand the dream elements better, another dream it might be beneficial to re-enforce your sense of self by acting as your 'ideal-self', and another dream might be good to just have fun, fly around, and do what you want. Perhaps only focusing on one aspect is what makes it less natural and more ideological. Whether being ideological is natural is another discussion. 
It's a good point, Mr18111. It leads to the question: what makes someone value one want over another want? What criteria is involved? Or are you just talking about following instincts and a more intuitive sense of 'want'.
When I thought about using lucid dreaming to mess around and do meaningless things, I sensed there was something unfulfilling about it (to me). So you're right, I was unsure about it. But through questioning, contemplating, and discussing it here, I established a purpose for lucid dreaming that can fulfill multiple levels of self. Even if there is no absolute want, I prefer making a decision that aligns with the inspiration of as many aspects of myself as possible. Fulfilling a desire is one thing, but if I can fulfill a desire while simultaneously understand my unconscious better, make my waking life healthier, and teach myself important lessons I can take with me for several years, then I'll opt for the multi-dimensional option.
Current LD goal(s): Developing the choice to be lucid in any reality.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
23 |
Posts: 114
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Last Visit: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Reality? Not sure. Didn't RC.
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thu 19 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
Well, there ya go! I'm sure you won't be the first one to utilize lucid dreaming for a deeper purpose than psuedo-libertine desires or want of adventure. There are for sure a plethora of ideals within the comunity as to the purpose of lucid dreaming as a whole. When you use it as a tool to develope a connection to your sc, and explore a deeper sense of self, it can be fantastic noting what your learn along the way. This is never an approach to lucid dreaming that I have strived for, but it seems excellent for somebody to take a much deeper aproach to it. Keep your dream journal, and our comunity, updated on your progress and what you learn! It sounds intriguing! 
And good luck! 
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 359
Joined: 21 May 2012
Last Visit: 24 May 2013
LD count: Not counting
Location: Eastern shore of maryyyyyland
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thu 19 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
"I agree with the premise that lucid dreaming is natural. My qualm is with the basic intention influencing the decision of what to do with lucidity. But I'm starting to think it's a bit more like a balancing act: one dream you might need to be lucid and trying to understand the dream elements better, another dream it might be beneficial to re-enforce your sense of self by acting as your 'ideal-self', and another dream might be good to just have fun, fly around, and do what you want. Perhaps only focusing on one aspect is what makes it less natural and more ideological. Whether being ideological is natural is another discussion. "
You seem to be finding your own answers I myself tend to find a lot of aspects of lucid dreaming to be like a balancing act. You act on how you feel, what you want and what you need. And those things can change over time so it seems to make sense, in some dreams (for infinitely variable reasons) you conclude that you should find meaning in the dream. But in others you may conclude that you should just do what ever pops in your head.
"It's a good point, Mr18111. It leads to the question: what makes someone value one want over another want? What criteria is involved? Or are you just talking about following instincts and a more intuitive sense of 'want'. "
Ah that is a very good question and I don't think I could come up with a simple answer. It could be that wants and desires are just determined randomly on a whim. Or maybe it is the continuously changing nature between all the relevant variables in the subjects environment. I honestly do not know. I observe tons of relative correlation between some people's wants and there environment. But at the same time I see people with wants that have very little correlation to other things. Someone wants to kill the person sleeping with their lover. That same someone started loving their lover for reason they can't quite understand, they just do. Haha if that makes any sense. But anyways yes, I am basically referring to wants as being your intuitive or ideal desires.
" Even if there is no absolute want, I prefer making a decision that aligns with the inspiration of as many aspects of myself as possible. Fulfilling a desire is one thing, but if I can fulfill a desire while simultaneously understand my unconscious better, make my waking life healthier, and teach myself important lessons I can take with me for several years, then I'll opt for the multi-dimensional option."
And it is your desire to do so. And by trying to explore you consciousness objectively or try to uncover layers in it or translating dream elements, you are fullfiling your desires. Just doing what you want to do. So just make sure you enjoy and have fun
Current LD goal(s): Have fun
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
31 |
Posts: 68
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 28 Jul 2012
LD count: 4
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Sat 28 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
Do not rule out the possibility that many people use lucid dreaming to do interact with their subconscious mind in a more positive and constructive way. Whether or not you believe in a 'spiritual' side to dreams, you cannot deny that what you think of as 'you' is mostly just a superficial ego. You don't create the dream consciously - just start asking dream characters to tell you things you don't know and need to know, and eventually one most likely will. The elements of your dreams represent, at the very least, the parts of yourself you do not yet perceive or understand.
I believe that being overly aggressive to dreams characters can be damaging to your psyche, and thereby carry over, albeit in subtle ways, into your waking life. If you believe there is nothing in the dream but you, then all your aggression is really aimed at parts of yourself. As far as letting dreams play out naturally and letting the dinosaur torment you as per usual, there is a benefit to that. If we were in our natural environments we would need practice running from tigers and whatnot. But even non lucid dreams do not follow the natural course of events - tigers have never turning into fire breathing giant octopuses at any point since mankind evolved.
What if, as a society, we are already f****ed up anyway? What if its not natural to have nightmares about not paying bills, passing tests, getting arrested, etc. I think we need all the help we can get, personally, to shake off the delusions when were taught growing up, and lucid dreams may help you get to a more mature part of yourself - but yes, you might have to struggle with the addiction, and subsequent apathy, of the pursuit of mere pleasure. And that can be hard to do.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
15 |
Posts: 25
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Last Visit: 27 Nov 2012
LD count: 35
Location: U.K.
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Sat 28 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
Guys you should watch this program that was on the BBC it's all about why we dream it has some of the leading scientists saying there theories and why they believe this and for some of them there evidence. Anyway check it is a 60 minute show and even has a bit about lucid dreaming near the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmVzXxdUeU
Current LD goal(s): To have my second LD!
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
26 |
Posts: 95
Joined: 09 May 2012
Last Visit: 20 Mar 2013
Location: Canada
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Sat 28 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
| Playlien wrote: |
Do not rule out the possibility that many people use lucid dreaming to do interact with their subconscious mind in a more positive and constructive way. Whether or not you believe in a 'spiritual' side to dreams, you cannot deny that what you think of as 'you' is mostly just a superficial ego. You don't create the dream consciously - just start asking dream characters to tell you things you don't know and need to know, and eventually one most likely will. The elements of your dreams represent, at the very least, the parts of yourself you do not yet perceive or understand.
I believe that being overly aggressive to dreams characters can be damaging to your psyche, and thereby carry over, albeit in subtle ways, into your waking life. If you believe there is nothing in the dream but you, then all your aggression is really aimed at parts of yourself. As far as letting dreams play out naturally and letting the dinosaur torment you as per usual, there is a benefit to that. If we were in our natural environments we would need practice running from tigers and whatnot. But even non lucid dreams do not follow the natural course of events - tigers have never turning into fire breathing giant octopuses at any point since mankind evolved.
What if, as a society, we are already f****ed up anyway? What if its not natural to have nightmares about not paying bills, passing tests, getting arrested, etc. I think we need all the help we can get, personally, to shake off the delusions when were taught growing up, and lucid dreams may help you get to a more mature part of yourself - but yes, you might have to struggle with the addiction, and subsequent apathy, of the pursuit of mere pleasure. And that can be hard to do. |
Mm! Good point.
Although, I think no matter what the details --whether a nightmare comes from bills suffocating you or a tiger chasing you down as prey-- the natural element of fear prevails living beings on the planet, along with the process to learn to respond to and eventually command that fear.
This is really motivating me to interact with dream characters (human and animal alike); thank you.
| Quote: |
Guys you should watch this program that was on the BBC it's all about why we dream it has some of the leading scientists saying there theories and why they believe this and for some of them there evidence. Anyway check it is a 60 minute show and even has a bit about lucid dreaming near the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmVzXxdUeU |
Hey thanks, looks really interesting; I'm going to watch it right now.[/quote]
Current LD goal(s): Developing the choice to be lucid in any reality.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Last Visit: 25 Dec 2012
LD count: 10
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Sun 29 Jul, 2012 |
|
|
| Playlien wrote: |
|
I think we need all the help we can get, personally, to shake off the delusions when were taught growing up, and lucid dreams may help you get to a more mature part of yourself |
This has been a fascinating thread to read! Playlien makes a good point. I was raised in a "demon haunted world," (excellent book by Carl Sagan), but I don't believe in demons anymore. I used to have false awakenings that terrified me. Now, they don't.
I am persuing LD for self-improvement, to gain objectivity. In WL, I often realize in hindsight that I ignored a part of myself that was telling me to do something differently. I often kick myself for not listening to the wisdom. I'm like a stubborn kid ignoring a parent. Studying LD has made me more aware of this in my WL and has helped me to start listening to my own inner wisdom.
Thanks for sharing all your insights!
Current LD goal(s): My first real LD was vivid, and I was very lucid. I want to do that again.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 26
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Last Visit: 29 Apr 2013
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Wed 08 Aug, 2012 |
|
|
Old times are washing back ashore, that shore where trembling feet stand before an ocean of mysteries.
There is a flock sitting in a circle, they are all facing the herd...they talk among themselves. They speak so loudly they no longer hear the waves crashing, i guess someone said to someone else that they forgot they were at the beach, cause they never go swimming.
The water is a little cold for them anyways.
The kids are playing in the wet sand, they built a castle.
There is a deep lingering weight sipping at the unknown, intoxicating your spirits with facts and answers, stampeding like a fat and blind dinosaur in our childrens castles.
Our children run to the flock of reptile tamers, who cannot teach them to swim in these waters they have unraveled with backs turned to.
------------------------
i was hanging out by a brain surveillance robot, when suddenly i was hit in the face with a big stick of wood (which there was no witness to). That, i swear, hurt a lot .
I was awestruck to figure out though, that to my misconception (thanks to robots and such creations) the pain i felt was not due to receiving a swung stick in the face, but to whatever region of my brain was undeniably showing activity at that precise moment.
i must admit, i was a skeptic.
so we repeated the experiment and i can no longer deny, and must now confess, that even after many and much beating of my face in with a basebal bat, hammers and even sausage (large and painful sausage) the same area of my brain showed activity at the precise moment of feeling the pain and thus the area of the brain and its activity is without question the cause of this pain...and is even likely to be the cause of receiving foreign and painful objects firmly across my face.
to push the experiment to the ''Home run'' status, a human assisted robot was to stimulate the same area of my brain in order to produce the pain i had felt in the preceding experiment.
the procedure proved to be a success, the stimulation of the proper area of the brain brought about the pain desired repeatedly.
In future experiments, machines and other creations of man will press on further to prove that every sensation and external phenomena originates from the brain.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 26
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Last Visit: 29 Apr 2013
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Wed 08 Aug, 2012 |
|
|
Old times are washing back ashore, that shore where trembling feet stand before an ocean of mysteries.
There is a flock sitting in a circle, they are all facing the herd...they talk among themselves. They speak so loudly they no longer hear the waves crashing, i guess someone said to someone else that they forgot they were at the beach, cause they never go swimming.
The water is a little cold for them anyways.
The kids are playing in the wet sand, they built a castle.
There is a deep lingering weight sipping at the unknown, intoxicating your spirits with facts and answers, stampeding like a fat and blind dinosaur in our childrens castles.
Our children run to the flock of reptile tamers, who cannot teach them to swim in these waters they have unraveled with backs turned to.
------------------------
i was hanging out by a brain surveillance robot, when suddenly i was hit in the face with a big stick of wood (which there was no witness to). That, i swear, hurt a lot .
I was awestruck to figure out though, that to my misconception (thanks to robots and such creations) the pain i felt was not due to receiving a swung stick in the face, but to whatever region of my brain was undeniably showing activity at that precise moment.
i must admit, i was a skeptic.
so we repeated the experiment and i can no longer deny, and must now confess, that even after many and much beating of my face in with a basebal bat, hammers and even sausage (large and painful sausage) the same area of my brain showed activity at the precise moment of feeling the pain and thus the area of the brain and its activity is without question the cause of this pain...and is even likely to be the cause of receiving foreign and painful objects firmly across my face.
to push the experiment to the ''Home run'' status, a human assisted robot was to stimulate the same area of my brain in order to produce the pain i had felt in the preceding experiment.
the procedure proved to be a success, the stimulation of the proper area of the brain brought about the pain desired repeatedly.
In future experiments, machines and other creations of man will press on further to prove that every sensation and external phenomena originates from the brain.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts: 359
Joined: 21 May 2012
Last Visit: 24 May 2013
LD count: Not counting
Location: Eastern shore of maryyyyyland
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Wed 08 Aug, 2012 |
|
|
| Playlien wrote: |
Do not rule out the possibility that many people use lucid dreaming to do interact with their subconscious mind in a more positive and constructive way. Whether or not you believe in a 'spiritual' side to dreams, you cannot deny that what you think of as 'you' is mostly just a superficial ego. You don't create the dream consciously - just start asking dream characters to tell you things you don't know and need to know, and eventually one most likely will. The elements of your dreams represent, at the very least, the parts of yourself you do not yet perceive or understand.
I believe that being overly aggressive to dreams characters can be damaging to your psyche, and thereby carry over, albeit in subtle ways, into your waking life. If you believe there is nothing in the dream but you, then all your aggression is really aimed at parts of yourself. As far as letting dreams play out naturally and letting the dinosaur torment you as per usual, there is a benefit to that. If we were in our natural environments we would need practice running from tigers and whatnot. But even non lucid dreams do not follow the natural course of events - tigers have never turning into fire breathing giant octopuses at any point since mankind evolved.
What if, as a society, we are already f****ed up anyway? What if its not natural to have nightmares about not paying bills, passing tests, getting arrested, etc. I think we need all the help we can get, personally, to shake off the delusions when were taught growing up, and lucid dreams may help you get to a more mature part of yourself - but yes, you might have to struggle with the addiction, and subsequent apathy, of the pursuit of mere pleasure. And that can be hard to do. |
A very good approach indeed. Dreams are at the very least made made by yourself or mind, so exploring them in any way could be beneficial.
Current LD goal(s): Have fun
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
|
|
|
|
|
26 |
Posts: 95
Joined: 09 May 2012
Last Visit: 20 Mar 2013
Location: Canada
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Fri 10 Aug, 2012 |
|
|
| clockhair wrote: |
Old times are washing back ashore, that shore where trembling feet stand before an ocean of mysteries.
There is a flock sitting in a circle, they are all facing the herd...they talk among themselves. They speak so loudly they no longer hear the waves crashing, i guess someone said to someone else that they forgot they were at the beach, cause they never go swimming.
The water is a little cold for them anyways.
The kids are playing in the wet sand, they built a castle.
There is a deep lingering weight sipping at the unknown, intoxicating your spirits with facts and answers, stampeding like a fat and blind dinosaur in our childrens castles.
Our children run to the flock of reptile tamers, who cannot teach them to swim in these waters they have unraveled with backs turned to.
------------------------
i was hanging out by a brain surveillance robot, when suddenly i was hit in the face with a big stick of wood (which there was no witness to). That, i swear, hurt a lot .
I was awestruck to figure out though, that to my misconception (thanks to robots and such creations) the pain i felt was not due to receiving a swung stick in the face, but to whatever region of my brain was undeniably showing activity at that precise moment.
i must admit, i was a skeptic.
so we repeated the experiment and i can no longer deny, and must now confess, that even after many and much beating of my face in with a basebal bat, hammers and even sausage (large and painful sausage) the same area of my brain showed activity at the precise moment of feeling the pain and thus the area of the brain and its activity is without question the cause of this pain...and is even likely to be the cause of receiving foreign and painful objects firmly across my face.
to push the experiment to the ''Home run'' status, a human assisted robot was to stimulate the same area of my brain in order to produce the pain i had felt in the preceding experiment.
the procedure proved to be a success, the stimulation of the proper area of the brain brought about the pain desired repeatedly.
In future experiments, machines and other creations of man will press on further to prove that every sensation and external phenomena originates from the brain. |
Interesting dreams.
After reading your final conclusion I thought to myself that the sensations were a part of the brain's interpretation of cellular activity. I pictured the numbness I would feel if I severed the communication links between the brain and my arm, and began bashing my arm.
Current LD goal(s): Developing the choice to be lucid in any reality.
|
|
|
| |
| |
| | | |
 | |
| |
