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I can't manipulate my dreams at all :(

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dreamincolor
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I can't manipulate my dreams at all :(
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

I've always had this problem as long as I've had lucid dreams. I try to summon a person, spin around and change locations, sway dream characters to do my bidding. It seems like my dreams are always fighting against me, the more I want them to do something, they don't.

Usually when I'm trying to will something to happen, it involves just mentally willing it, saying "my husband will appear in the room, my husband will appear in the room." But it never happens.

I started giving up trying to change my dream world and just exploring.



Current LD goal(s): walk through a mirror
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sandris01
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Well i never tried to manipulate the world in such a big way(make a person appear), only subtle details, like doors, handles so on. And it takes more than just saying it in your mind, willing as you say. Well I do will it, but not verbally, I do it in my mind, with my mind, but no words are formed in mind. I can't really explain in words, not possible. It's like explaining color to a blind person. You have to learn it yourself.

I actually had a LD this night, One of the stranger ones, the dark ones. I had and idea sometime ago, to create something like an energy ball in my hands ( like magic, yeah :D ). Well I actually remembered that in my dream and tried to do it, only to find out that my dream character companion was ferociously trying to prevent me from doing it. i succeeded to create a small red orb, about a 1cm in diameter, with kind of fractals inside, that was changing the longer I sustained it. I have no idea what it was about.



Current LD goal(s): Achieve stronger lucidity, create an energy orb without being disturbed
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BrandonBoss
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Well... You have 40 LDs that is not a good amount of tries for anything in sports or games. If you tried to play basketball only 40 times and you were mad that you could not dribble between the legs or dunk or something similar, would you be angry?

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Lumessence
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

--Edited--
Scipio is right. What's difficult for one, is not difficult for another, and It's true that you cannot place "difficulty levels" on anything, really. It all depends on what you as a person wish to do.

I was going to suggest some little things I thought might be easier, but again, I guess that's not relevant. Thank you Scipio.

If you still wish to hear some suggestions, i can still supply them, but to be honest, If it's not something you want to do, or what naturally comes to mind, I don't believe they will be as effective as what you are truely trying to do on your own.



Current LD goal(s): Slow the Rain...


Last edited by Lumessence on Thu 05 Dec, 2013; edited 2 times in total
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Cornelia Xaos
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

I wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun and say just because he has a low level of LDing experience (40 actually isn't that low, imho) that it would be really difficult to impossible to do "more advanced" lucid skills. I believe it's more of how one perceives his or her own capability and the expectation of success.

It's sort of like this: I can say I want something.. and I can REALLY want something. Willpower works.. but only when expectation doesn't get in the way. You have to want to succeed, you have to believe you'll succeed, and you have to suspect you'll succeed. So if you're having difficulty willing someone into the room or existence, examine your state of mind and see if you were really expecting them to appear suddenly.

Alternatively, instead of going the full willpower route, tie in some "tricks" as well. Walk around a corner and expect the person to be there. Reach your hand out behind you and expect the person to be there. Expect the person to be on the other side of a door and open it. This can be applied to anything you can do in a dream.

Let us know what you think and how you're doing.



Current LD goal(s): Engage L.E.A.F. Extras for the VALGEAR.

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dreamincolor
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

maybe I am trying to do things too "big" and should try smaller tasks, like suggested, making a door appear etc...
and I also like the opinion that I have to believe I will succeed! maybe I don't believe in myself, and my dream characters are reinforcing my insecurities.
as far as the 40 LDs, I need to change that. that was the very rough estimate of LDs I had as a child, when I first started the forum and started trying to induce the dreams. before they came naturally. now I am having at least 2 a week most of the time 3. so the number is now closer to 200. I just never thought to count them



Current LD goal(s): walk through a mirror
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dreamincolor
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

on an interesting note I was able to manipulate my dreams much more as a kid, even when I didn't have LDs very often.
I'd be interested in tips for smaller things to try when lucid, I've seen suggestions before like putting your hand through a mirror? I am able to fly very easily at will



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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Hang in there, dream control can be frustrating at first, until you know the secret.

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Aeon234
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Agreed.

Personally I'd scale back on the forceful control and try the passive approach as suggested, and if you feel you're still struggling just add in some stabilisation techniques.

Sometimes an LD can be just about exploring you know. Besides, it's fun to look down at your own feet and pick up some sand to run through your fingers.



Current LD goal(s): Explore persistent realms
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dreamosis
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

I've found that dream control requires far less effort than I thought, at first, it did.

For instance, I had a lucid dream earlier this week in which I was flying with my wife. She zipped past me, a blur. I tried to catch up, but couldn't speed myself up. But then, instead of trying to fly faster, I simply focused on my wife's image and visualized myself right behind her. In a flash, my body sped forward and I caught up to her.

The level of concentration that it took to do that was like...the level of concentration it takes to imagine what a room would look like from a different position.

Non-effort is the name of the game.

Also, dreamincolor, every one has different strengths and weaknesses. I personally think it's fascinating that your dreams are so stable. Embrace the stability! Actually, I think you should investigate it. Ask the dream directly why so-and-so didn't come. By "ask directly" I mean speak right to the air and wait for answer.

And if you talk to advanced LDers, you'll find out that summoning specific people is always problematic. I haven't met any lucid dreamer who says she can at-will make anyone appear at any time.

Possibly, there's a reason for this. In the last year, I've been experimenting with meeting up with a specific person and the results have been baffling. I cannot fully say why I'm sometimes successful and sometimes not. The general wisdom is that you must expect, "truly" expect, the person to be there; but I've summoned people enough to say that expectation isn't everything. There's an X factor. Earlier this year, I had a long series of LDs. I went lucid in every morning dream and every time I spent the whole dream calling, or looking for, a specific person. I tried everything: I called out; I called out mentally; I opened doors hoping to find her; I created doors; I created glowing portals in the air; I searched; I asked other characters where she was; I changed dreams; I meditated and tried again; I tried with skepticism and I tried with excited conviction—with true expectation.

It'd be easy to write off the whole experience by saying I was "trying too hard," but I know that I wasn't trying any harder or less hard, or with any more or less emotion, than in my other LDs.

So what gives?

I don't know. Sometimes summoning works and sometimes it doesn't. When it works I don't really believe that I do anything different than when it doesn't work. I do the same thing: I call or search for the person, hoping for them to be there.

Sometimes, when I've sought people out, they've been lucid too, or have seemed lucid, and sometimes they haven't. What decides the difference? I don't know. Why would I expect anyone to be non-lucid when what I want is to have a dream adventure with them?

(Actually, the question of why some DCs are lucid and some aren't is, in itself, a mystery—let alone why sought-out or summoned people are lucid or non-lucid.)

So, yeah, I don't have good answers.

I do know that my biggest success last year happened on a night when she and I both were lucid in our dreams and called each other. We both had been having nightmares in which we were being abused. I became lucid and called out for her. She became lucid and called out for me. In her dream, I showed up and she woke up. In my dream, she showed up and we had a little adventure.

My second biggest success happened on a night when I found her waiting in line, about to go into a strange big building. She was dressed differently and had curly hair (which she doesn't IRL). In her dreams, that night, she went to a dance club with curly hair.



Current LD goal(s): Finding specific people at will.
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BrandonBoss
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Scipio Xaos wrote:
I wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun and say just because he has a low level of LDing experience (40 actually isn't that low, imho) that it would be really difficult to impossible to do "more advanced" lucid skills. I believe it's more of how one perceives his or her own capability and the expectation of success.

It's sort of like this: I can say I want something.. and I can REALLY want something. Willpower works.. but only when expectation doesn't get in the way. You have to want to succeed, you have to believe you'll succeed, and you have to suspect you'll succeed. So if you're having difficulty willing someone into the room or existence, examine your state of mind and see if you were really expecting them to appear suddenly.

Alternatively, instead of going the full willpower route, tie in some "tricks" as well. Walk around a corner and expect the person to be there. Reach your hand out behind you and expect the person to be there. Expect the person to be on the other side of a door and open it. This can be applied to anything you can do in a dream.

Let us know what you think and how you're doing.


Willpower and the other tricks we do are are things that some people are natural at doing, and some aren't. Even if you are a natural, it takes practice. If not a natural at it, it takes practice as well. What other things would 40 be considered a lot? He LDs on and off, so 40 is a lot for him to have with not being very consistent. 350 isn't very much either. It took me 70 LDs to get a consistent flying method. Had to force myself to believe that I believed. Gotten better at things now. I think that the learning of LDing powers and all is a bit quicker curve than most things, but it still takes time to learn, 40 or 350 LDs won't allow you to do anything that you want in a LD.

Now I have a "method for everything" that I call "find the problem" If something doesn't work the first time, I make a bogus excuse as to why it doesn't work and fix that (I think i have told you about this before)(example: "the reason I couldn't use fire is because that pot stops fire" :::march over, brake pot::: YAY! i have defeated pot, Link would be proud ::flying:smile. This took me a while to integrate in for when I have trouble believing something. tounge2

@Dreamosis
IT wasn't until I thought of flying as much as I thought of walking, then it became like walking. I realized that I focused a lot on trying to fly, but I never focus on walking, I just do it. So the next time I flew I didn't think "I am going to fly now" I think "Oh, I should go over there" and go there.

@ OP
The easiest way I have found dream control, is that if you don't believe in yourself, believe in an object or person. Use the object to do something like that (if you want a DC to appear, just call them on the phone, If you want some sway over them use a wand and the imperious curse). Creative problem solving is something that is normally personal, and you have to work out for yourself. You are an LDer, one of the most creative people on the planet, I believe in you. If you want help with LDing things in a LD, it would work really good to summon a LDer in your dreams and have them teach you. Even if it was just a DC of them, it would make you believe. I have been learning from an LDer that I don't think exists in my dreams lately. He has helped me a lot actually. I would recommend a hot chick though... that would be more fun... tounge2
Also, some people think that they "couldn't believe that it would work more than they already do", but it isn't that kind of belief and experience that makes it work. It is subconscious expectation. The king of all LDing as far as I am concerned.


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Aeon234
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

Interesting what you wrote about using logic to overcome an obstacle, it's like breaking down a brick wall with a hammer instead of your fists.

What is your preferred summoning technique? Usually, I would just imagine the person or scenery behind me then turn around and Wallah! It's much easier to manifest something when you can't see it or know it's there.

I think there needs to be some kind of bond IRL for it to work effectively, even if you create this bond artificially. By this I mean to form a link between yourself and the person in waking life using a 'magick trick' which could be something as simple as drawing the persons involved and writing your names on the piece of paper - you could do this in your DJ even - before you go to sleep.

I remember one time I tried to change scenery using the above technique and I literally ripped a building in two, in front of me was the building and behind me was a beautiful landscape. Very cool stuff! :D



Current LD goal(s): Explore persistent realms
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Lumessence
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

dreamosis wrote:


And if you talk to advanced LDers, you'll find out that summoning specific people is always problematic. I haven't met any lucid dreamer who says she can at-will make anyone appear at any time.

Possibly, there's a reason for this. In the last year, I've been experimenting with meeting up with a specific person and the results have been baffling. I cannot fully say why I'm sometimes successful and sometimes not. The general wisdom is that you must expect, "truly" expect, the person to be there; but I've summoned people enough to say that expectation isn't everything. There's an X factor. Earlier this year, I had a long series of LDs. I went lucid in every morning dream and every time I spent the whole dream calling, or looking for, a specific person. I tried everything: I called out; I called out mentally; I opened doors hoping to find her; I created doors; I created glowing portals in the air; I searched; I asked other characters where she was; I changed dreams; I meditated and tried again; I tried with skepticism and I tried with excited conviction—with true expectation.



Ah. So my claim wasn't completely blind after all.
While I've been capable of doing anything that comes to mind without effort or resistance, this, has in fact always been my only weakness. I've only truly succeeded in conjuring a DC once.

Ironically... It was someone I had never even met before. Someone I had heard a story about. Some kind of commonly seen dream lurker. So I summoned her, just to see what would happen. To my surprise, it was no more difficult than any other task. But any other DC - whether it be a fictional character, or someone I know in real life, I'm unable to do so.

My theory is, that when I'm conjuring a specific someone, I have a very defined expectation of who they are, and how they appear. If you don't pay too much conscious detail to those things, It could quite possibly be easier. Afterall, your SC remembers and keeps track of details far more efficiently than your conscious mind does.

So, instead of having the dream rely on you, rely on the dream instead. Don't picture the person you're trying to conjure. Don't have that expectation. Just think about the person, not what they look like.. But just enough of an identifier. Let your SC do the rest.

This is a theory I came up with a moment ago. I'd attempt it myself, but I've seem to have fallen from my previous position, and I don't know if I'll be able to do so. Regardless, give this a try. It may work, or it may not work at all. But if you do try, inform me of the outcome.



Current LD goal(s): Slow the Rain...
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Clustafer
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

I can usually make who I want form in my dream. But it's not just like they appear right in front of me. I usually try to get someone to form by walking through a wall with the intention that when I get out, I'll be in a room with that person there. I can't really change things in front of me either.


Current LD goal(s): Go explore something cool, go skiing in deep powder, design a space colony.
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Aeon234
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013  Reply with quote

You can try a trick I came up with that works quite well. Simply wave your hand like a jedi, however the mind trick here is to think the person into your dream whilst you wave your hand over, so that they appear off in the distance at the moment your hand blocks that part of your vision. You can also use this to manifest objects not just people. I have used it to form weapons, food & drink, heck even entire buildings.

If you don't like what you created just wave your hand back the other way using intent to reverse the process. You can make buildings crumble this way or completely vanish from sight. The only downside is that you have to be quite some distance away for the bigger things but once you get the hang of it, you learn how to do it without using your hand.



Current LD goal(s): Explore persistent realms
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