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Immortality through Lucid Dreams.

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KaiserCody
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct, 2006  Reply with quote

Someone's been watching waking life. I think it's been pretty well established that dream time and waking time is almost identical, even if it seems you dreamed a really long intricate in a minute, you probably didn't. And even if you could have 100 year dream in 10 minutes, you'd still be dead in 10 minutes. Believing in Jesus is the safer bet.

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Belshazaroth
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct, 2006  Reply with quote

You said it.

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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct, 2006  Reply with quote

I don't think it has been exactly Established that dreams ALWAYS follow clocktime. I have in fact only heard of one experiment on the subject. Yet I've heard of many people claiming to have had extended dreams. I wouldn't call every one of them a liar or a fool. You may say it's not really 100 years of "time" whatever that means. But if it really seems to the dreamer that it was, even if impossible, then the technicalities don't matter. A dream is what it seems to be right?

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Fluxion
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018  Reply with quote

Datameister wrote:
I didn't know that the brain remained active so long after death. If this is true, I suppose it might be possible to become lucid in this time and prolong the experience, perhaps even for hours or weeks (or years...?). But of course immortality can't be reached this way. Immortality is the state of living forever, and your brain cannot fit an infinite amount of thought into ten minutes. Don't forget that dreaming is a physical process in the real world--electrical signals have to fire, chemicals have to get to the right places.

I know that there are theories about the nature of "prolonged" dreams--namely, that our brains prolong dreams by leaving out time periods that we deem unimportant, as television does. So some of you may be thinking that this process would allow us to dream for a seemingly infinite amount of time. But infinity wit gaps is still infinity. Think about if you took all the numbers that exist--you'd have an infinite amount of numbers, right? Now let's say you took out all the numbers with 2 included as a digit. You'd still have an infinite amount of numbers.

Unfortunately, this means an infinitely long dream simply isn't possible in a finite lifetime. So immortality? No. Seemingly prolonged life? Perhaps. We'll never know until we get to try it ourselves. wink5


I hate to be the one to bump an ancient thread, but you CAN have a bounded infinity, mathematically speaking. That is, there can be an infinite amount of numbers that is bounded on both sides. For example, there is an infinite amount of real numbers between 1 and 2.

As it pertains to lucid dreams in a finite time span, the number of “dream seconds” would have to be at the bsre minimum bounded by how many planck time lengths there are in ten minutes, so eternal immortality is not possible. Furthermore, it would have to be bounded by the minimum size of the electrical/other components of a thought, and in term bound by how long it would take a light beam to pass by one, multiplied by how many times this could occur in the space of the active brain and the time limit in the real world.

Pretty wordy, but basically living eternally in a lucid dream isn’t possible if dreams only occur in the physical mind, however, the actual limit to how long you can make the dream feel could be very long, depending upon how physical boundaries compare with what actually goes into the smallest unit of thought, whatever that is.


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the_shadow
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep, 2018  Reply with quote

Fascinating:)

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EarthlyInspired
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep, 2018  Reply with quote

Tibetan Buddhists do actually practice lucid dreaming for this very reason. Once you become so advanced in lucid dreaming while alive, you learn how to move beyond all dream senses/scenes/emotions/what-have-you, and just experience being "the source". The goal of these buddhist monks is to learn to recognize this state of being so that they can find it again when they die. I believe someone else already mentioned this earlier in the thread...

But my take on this whole topic is that it doesn't really matter how long your brain lasts after you die. These discussions are all following the assumption that the brain is the power source of your consciousness, and that once your brain dies, your consciousness dies.

I think its the other way around. Your consciousness inhabits your body and mind, but is not powered by them. The brain may be amazing, and may be responsible for the vast majority of what we experience in this lifetime--sight, touch, logic--but awareness, existence.. I don't think any organ can claim ownership over that, even one as complex as the brain. No, the brain is the vehicle for our awareness/soul/existence/etc to experience the world as a separate entity. When the brain stops functioning, we return to the source of our awareness (which is everything), or we begin another life.

So, when the brain dies, when the body is no longer able to sustain adequate blood flow the keep the organ functioning, then our awareness leaves. The brain can no longer provide that unique perspective on life for which our awareness sought it out, and therefore it moves on. But we don't "remember" our awareness from after the brain/body dies, because we no longer have a brain to store memory... doesn't mean we didn't exist in that moment though.

In summary, as the brain dies, I believe we do enter a lucid dream of sorts, and it carries us away onto whatever comes next for us, and can continue for infinity, because it is no longer bounded by a time limit, i.e., the terminal moments of the brain.

Sort of turns it into a bit of a religious/belief topic... not my intention tounge1



Current LD goal(s): Have LDs become commonplace in my dreams; succeed in WILDing
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DeRuyter001
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2018  Reply with quote

It's natural for this to become a belief-based topic, I don't think you need to worry. For it to be a material science topic, we'd need to understand the relationship between consciousness and brain activity so well that we could predict one from the state of the other. Meanwhile, our medical science doesn't even know how anaesthetic works! Only that it works.

I offer my thoughts from a Catholic perspective; it would interesting to hear others.

We often pray for a good death, and a death we can prepare for. We say, "from an unprovided death, deliver us, O Lord," or "Lord, let me know mine end, and the number of my days." To confess all our sins, to be absolved, make our peace with men and with God, is a great good fortune for us in our last days. If we live in a good and holy way, we can enjoy each hour, not only the final one, in just such a vigilant and hopeful state: so that if we're knocked down by a bus, we needn't feel anxious or regretful - "live each day as if it were your last", even the pagans used to say.

Our bodies and the world we can sense around us are a great communication to us from God: a love letter, if you like. Just think how many times in your life you've turned inward, chewing over some nasty thing someone's said, combing over an embarrassing experience, kicking yourself. How may times you've been in a sulk - when, suddenly, you hear someone make a joke and you laugh in spite of yourself. Or you say "I need some air," and as you grumble along your walk, you see a breathtaking view and forget all your anger. The world outside us has this great power of taking us out of ourselves, helping us see things in perspective. Our Father tickles us when we're trying to be serious and upset, just as our human fathers did, and we giggle in spite of ourselves. What a mercy!

This total forgetfulness of ourselves - which we experience in our best moments, the moments we want to last forever (who knows what his own arms are doing when he's gazing at a star?) - is part of Heaven. We're not thinking of us, we're thinking of the thing we love. Total absorption in ourselves, dwelling on our wrongs and hates, feeling that no one understands, these are part of Hell. We send ourselves there willingly, closing off to every generous and open impulse, because we'd rather be right than be happy! "Just leave me alone, I don't want to cheer up." And so we collapse inwards. God is very understanding. If we don't want to be happy, he won''t force us.

This is my concern with "immortality" through a dying dream. Imagine you die in your bed, with your family all around you, having said goodbye to all and being pardoned by the priest. You are ready to go, in the perfect state of mind: a well-provided death. But what if another hundred years intervene? A hundred years trapped in your own mind, with nothing but your own prejudices, passions, psychoses to keep you company? There will be no friend sent by Heaven, to bring you back to earth. No landscapes to awe your grumbling into silence. You have your own full attention, for as long as you like. You say, "you know what gets my goat?", and your dream says, "yes, I do. I really do. Let me show you it again." And so you finally slip away, not in that state of beautiful resignation and readiness in which your family last saw you, but driven mad by centuries of solitary confinement, gnawing morbidly on your own preoccupations. Not the best way to enter into our eternal state; and a sudden death might be even worse, as we are overwhelmed by the pains we've just suffered, the robbing of our future, all our regrets and unrealized hopes. Better that we have no time to think.

The immortals are admirable not only because they live forever, but because, as the word tells us, they are strictly free from mortality, free from mortal things. Pain, anger, evil impulses, revenge, all the rest of it: these are very mortal things. They have the taste of death, because they end in the annihilation of our vitality, our liveliness. Your dreams are part of you. They cannot free you from your own weakness. So long as you are mortal, your dreams will be too - they will belong to the landscape and the country of death, the same as all our life on earth.

Who would want to tarry within that country, war-torn between Heaven and Hell, covered with trenches and barbed wire, where our own good resolutions are undermined at every turn, when the other country is waiting, the Fair Country, thick with winged and fiery creatures, all blue like distant hills, but close enough to touch? The country where the present meets eternity, where the whole world of perishability and uncertainty will be laid out in front of us, as if we flew out of some Tudor maze and saw from above that what seemed on earth to be endless, tortuous and blind, alley after alley, was really part of some unthought, unheard of pattern of glorious comeliness and intricacy? For that is what our linear time looks like, standing in God's eternal Now.

And who could wish to dive deeper into their own dreams, to be lonely and grow old, when the King and Bridegroom of our souls is hurrying to meet us, with peace shining in His face, His five dear wounds smelling sweetly of life and life-giving water? There is an ache in us - when we think of distant, unreachable mountains, or wide oceans, or happy times long ago, laughing family around a forgotten table - which can never be healed, which will make us restless forever until we rest in Him: the final, absolute Other, totally real, totally outside ourselves and our imagination, into Whom our souls, with all their odd, angular and rough parts, will fit as a key fits into a lock. With Him, at last, we will no longer be strangers in our own hearts, in our own homes, but we will find our place. You will be more comforted there than in your own best dreams.

And Heaven is better; infinitely better than this and infinitely better than any mortal words can tell or mortal hearts can know.

I have dreamed many times and many things. I have seen family and beloved friends die, sometimes after long suffering; and I trust that when the time comes for me, I'll not wait around for a second. I'll want to go home.



Current LD goal(s): Bring Respiral back to life!

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