The DreamMaker
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LD4all » Quest for Lucidity

#16:  Author: Kava PostPosted: Sun 02 Jan, 2005
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Hey yae, I found a alarm clock C.D. player the other day, and it plays a C.D. at what ever time you set it. Im thinking of getting one. How did you hook the strobe light up to a timer?

#17:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Mon 03 Jan, 2005
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WhiteWolf wrote:
see another cheaper alternitive. and safer then mine! lol.
Im only afraid that if i use somthing like that i would become dependent on it. And only LD IF I use that overspannen so id rather like I said learn Dreamsigns, or learn WILD better..


I completely agree. You do not want to become too dependent on a device for you lucid dreams. However, it may help some people who are just getting started or trying to overcome a dry spell. Once you get the feel of lucid dreaming then you wont need the device anymore.

kavaa wrote:
How did you hook the strobe light up to a timer?


The timer plugs into the wall then you plug the strobe light into the timer. You turn the power to the strobe light on. On the front of the timer there are little switches where you can set it to turn the strobe on. You can set it to go on a specific times or every 15 min, every few hours etc. You will understand when you see the timer. You can buy them in almost any k-mart or wall-mart type stores very cheap.

#18:  Author: r3m0t PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2005
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Please, everybody, stop saying $1000! It isn't!

It's $350, or $200 if you order soon.

#19:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2005
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r3m0t wrote:
Please, everybody, stop saying $1000! It isn't!

It's $350, or $200 if you order soon.


The site wrote:
The DreamMaker will retail at $349.00. If you pre-order now you will get it for only $200.00

The DreamMaker Pro will retail for $999.95. If you pre-order now you will get it for only $499.00


Still $200.00 is still a ridiculous price. They want you to send them $200.00 yet, they are vague as to who is developing this thing. They donít even have a picture of it on there web site so you have no idea of what you are buying!

#20:  Author: r3m0t PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2005
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It isn't that hard to see that "Wellness Tools" (company) have made these.

The extra price for the "Pro" version is for the light and sound machine:

Quote:
A Light/Sound Machine is a device that synchronizes a set of sequencing lights and different frequencies of sound. It was developed as an aid for learning, relaxation, consciousness expansion and entertainment. Pulsating lights and/or sound patterns have been used for centuries to excite people, calm people, assist in meditation and sleep, and entertain people.


This is not necessary for lucid dream induction. It is just an optional extra.

#21:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Sat 08 Jan, 2005
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Quote:
This is not necessary for lucid dream induction. It is just an optional extra.


Well you donít need a device at all to induce lucid dreams. wink5

However, I do stand corrected. It does appear that wellness tools is the company that is producing the device. But, it is still suspicious that the do not have a picture of the device on their site.

Also note that the reduced price is only for the first 100 orders.

Anyway, I am just concerned that wellness tools is going to do the same thing the lucidity inst did. Control the production and keep the price high. thumbs down

#22:  Author: honeyjigga PostPosted: Wed 19 Jan, 2005
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Well the Dreammaker website has finally been updated but only with the CNN video of lucid dreaming that wellness tools was promising us.

The video does not talk anything about the Dreammaker which makes me not want to order this, until i see some actual pictures and info on this product.

I had emailed wellness tools a while ago with some questions and they got back to me, the Dreammaker does not have a cable that can be plugged to your PC like the Supernova dreamer had, only the Pro version has that.

So you guys your paying 200 dollars for the first 100 orders and there after 350 dollars, or you can order the rem dreamer from poland which has gone down in price now at 132 euros including shipping, which has had probably a new revision and they work better now, and the remdreamer cannot be connected to a PC but it does has a rem detector.

The dreammaker pro also has a built in light and sound machine which is said to better than all the light and sound machines currently on the market and it can plug to a PC with a upgrade kit probably another rip off of 150 dollars, already i think this pricing stradegy is not good for wellness tools, when to make these deivces they don't cost more than 80 dollars when your mass producing them.

They also said the pro version will have blue tooth enabled for another future expansion costly costly costly, that will allow you to stream the light and sound machine to the mask through bluetooth. Well that's all the email said. i emailed them back and asked for a FAQ section to be made on their website, he said that's a good idea, and would post all my questios and answers from the emails onto his website, but it seems he never bothered to wirte it up or is still working on it which has been over 10 days now.

#23: Nova Dreamer and Dream Maker Author: phoenelai PostPosted: Wed 26 Jan, 2005
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WhiteWolf wrote:
milod789 wrote:
I donít think it is the lucidity inst that is producing the dream maker.


Well whoever makes it needs to find a better price, I rather rap christmas lights around my head and have them set to a timer so they start flashing when I enter REM


The distributor (Nova Dreamer) is the Lucid Dream Connection for $700 Bucks..Yikes! whatsthat


I pre-ordered the DreamMaker Basic for $200, it doesnt have the mind machine but I plant to get Luna for that, so the mask with cues and lights is all you need. Better to pay $200 than $349 or freaking $1000 for the full-blown deal. 8D

#24:  Author: lucidboy PostPosted: Wed 26 Jan, 2005
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A better way will be make a deal with your dog so when you enter REM he will pee in your face so you can become wet lucid. neutral

#25:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Thu 27 Jan, 2005
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It would be interesting to find out if the dreamer maker is in any way superior to the rem dreamer which you can get for a lot less.

#26:  Author: honeyjigga PostPosted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005
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well we already know it is superior than the rem dreamer

the novadreamer and the rem dreamer only have a remdetector which works by detecting REM via a sensor which bounces light off the eyelid and then filters out noise or rapid movements.

but the dreammaker does that aswell as this i have copied and pasted this from there website: Electromyography (EMG) which measures facial tension is another good way to determine REM. By combining these two methods as we have done, increases the reliable detection of REM.

So the dreamamker has that second method which shows that the novadreamer and rem dreamer don't have,

Now one problem the Nova dreamer could be upgraded into a supernova dreamer, now the supernova was where you could connect the nova dreamer into a pc and record all your dream cues when they went off during the night.
Now the remdreamer and novadreamer does not have those features but the dreammaker pro version has a socket which will have that option in the future which is what i am told from an email that i wrote to wellness tools. Also it has a light and sound machine which is basically a control box that connects to a socket on the dreammaker and i think thats the same socket which will allow you to connect it to a pc with a future upgrade kit.

It's a bit stupid that they did not combine this option with the dreammaker basic.

So recap

Nova dreamer, one sort of rem detector but can be upgraded to supernova dreamer but discontinued.
rem dreamer same as above one sort of rem detector cannot be upgraded
dreammaker basic 2 sorts of rem detection cannot be upgraded
dream maker pro 2 sorts of remdetector, light and sound machine can be upgraded but it will cost something probably over 100 dollars i think.

Is it worth it, i don't think so, if they can drop the price of the pro version to 350 dollars or include the upgrade kit with the pro version for 500 dollars then great deal, if not thumbs down for this company.

they want to charge a 1000 dollars for the pro version after the first 100 sales, rip off and 500 dollars before.

the basic version was 200 dollars before the 100 sales, but sales has finish and it is selling for it's retail price now of 350 dollars, again rip off it should be 200 dollars because it cannot be upgraded.

#27:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005
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honeyjigga wrote:
well we already know it is superior than the rem dreamer


Do we really know it is superior to the rem-dreamer? IMO I donít think so.

First we have no idea if the dream maker produces better results then the rem dreamer or the nova dreamer for that matter.

Just because it has 2 methods of detecting rem might make it better but, not necessarily superior. If they both produce the same results then neither is superior to the other regardless of how many ways of detecting the rem state it has.

We donít even know what this thing looks like. Is it comfortable to wear at bed time. It could be the best LD induction device in the world but, if you canít keep it on your head when you are asleep itís useless.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on the matter.

#28:  Author: honeyjigga PostPosted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005
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yeah sorry about that perhaps it's not more superior but just has more features. We just have to see what it turns out to be from future tests from Lucid Dreamers.

#29:  Author: milod789 PostPosted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005
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honeyjigga wrote:
yeah sorry about that perhaps it's not more superior but just has more features. We just have to see what it turns out to be from future tests from Lucid Dreamers.


That is really the problem is there is not a lot of feed back from people. So far noone has posted any results with the rem dreamer which I think is about $120.00 and still over priced as far as I am concerned.

I think they are all a rip off. I am not saying that they do not work they are just outrageously priced. They control the production so they can keep the prices high.

You could get the same effects with a strobe light and timer. You could likely make your own light and sound machines for a 1/4 of what some of these places charge. It just takes some creativity. I knew some one who could not a afford a light machine so he bought some sort of laser light show thing for like $50.00 and used that with his meditation. That and a CD he had his own light and sound machine.

#30: Re: Nova Dreamer and Dream Maker Author: orion12 PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2005
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phoenelai wrote:

I pre-ordered the DreamMaker Basic for $200, it doesnt have the mind machine but I plant to get Luna for that, so the mask with cues and lights is all you need. Better to pay $200 than $349 or freaking $1000 for the full-blown deal. 8D

phoenelai,

Did you ever get your DreamMaker?

I ordered one from Wellness Tools
on 01/03/05. Wellness Tools CEO Bruce Gelerter took my order and charged my credit card the same day for $210. He assured me the merchandise would ship on 01/10/05.
But I never received it. He would not return my phone calls, emails, and certified letter.

Finally when I contacted store-abuse@yahoo-inc.com, he wrote that he had issued me a credit. But he hadn't! It was a lie, to get him off he hook with Yahoo.

I looked around on the Net and found out a few things about Mr. Gelerter, a.k.a. "Wellness Tools" and "Electro-Medical Research, LLC.":

* Wellness Tools has a rating of UNSATISFACTORY with the Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado.

* I found three other customers who also ordered merchandise from Wellness Tools and never received it after payment. Two of them area at http://www.badbusinessbureau.com , search for "Gelerter". The third is at http://p067.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm35.showMessage?t opicID=56.topic

* All three describe Gelerter as a "rip-off artist". That has also been my experience.

* Gelerter was sued in 1998 by the Dept. of Banking and Finance, Division of Financial Investigations of the State of Florida.

* He filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2003.

* He has been posting to numerous bulletin boards including support groups for dibetics with sale pitches such as this one:
Quote:

We have an electronic device that so far has prevented amputations and gets rid of swelling and open sores in as little as one to two weeks.

Not only is this a false or unverified medical claim, but it is spam that violates the no commercial notices policy of those bullentin boards.

I hope you are able to recover your money. If you paid by credit card, you should write the credit card company (at the address for billing errors on your statement) requesting a chargeback.

You may wish to file complaints with the Internet Fraud Complaint Center, FTC, FDA, Colorado Attorney General's Office, Yahoo Stores, and your local law enforcement.

Places to complain in order to let other consumers know are
http://www.fraudbureau.com,
http://www.quackwatch.com and the commercial site http://www.baddbusinessbureau.com.

Good luck!



LD4all » Quest for Lucidity


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