Changing Thoughts Every 1-2 Seconds?
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#1: Changing Thoughts Every 1-2 Seconds? Author: Samsta2007 PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul, 2007
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I read a wikibook which said you should change your thoughts every 1-2 seconds, when attempting WILD.
I was wondering if it had to be many things, or just two things you switch between? Also, what should you think about when doing it?

thankyou

#2:  Author: Hapexamendios PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul, 2007
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I think the whole point of that technique is to make sure you stay conscious enough to observe your thoughts and interact with them - instead of letting them distract you, so to speak.

Some people count, others recite songs or poems they've learned to fall asleep consciously. Others (like me) prefer to focus on HI. When I pay attention to my thoughts during the process, they usually don't make any sense, so I think of them as signs of being close to a dream.

I hope I've helped you a bit. Let us know how it goes!

#3:  Author: Basilus West PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul, 2007
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I've recently read this part of the wikibook and I disagree with it - and with many things that are on the wikibook BTW. I even don't know where this "technique" has its origin, I never remember having read something like that, except on the wikibook.

#4:  Author: Hapexamendios PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul, 2007
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Where can I find it?

#5:  Author: Basilus West PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul, 2007
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Here : http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lucid_Dreaming/
Chapter "Induction techniques", WILD.

OK, I've found one old reference to this on the forum. Xetrov is commenting this passage from the wikibook, cause someone asked if it wasn't a mistake.
Xetrov wrote:
No, this is correct. However you should not confuse different WILD methods. The method described here is a way to enter a LD through actively stimulating your HI's. This is not done through focus, more by letting your thoughts wander, thus creating momentum for the HI. Personally I think this is dangerous since it means you can lose awareness fast and fall asleep non lucid. Besides this technique there are many which require a focus. This means keeping your awareness on a certain feat, like breathing, or counting.

Now curiously, he says that "this is not done through focus, more by letting your thoughts wander", so what he says doesn't fit with the described technique, or he doesn't know it neither. BTW, letting thoughts wander is exactly what people do when they DON'T practice WILD and just fall asleep, thus I found all this very curious... eh

#6:  Author: Hapexamendios PostPosted: Sat 21 Jul, 2007
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Basilus West wrote:

Now curiously, he says that "this is not done through focus, more by letting your thoughts wander", so what he says doesn't fit with the described technique, or he doesn't know it neither. BTW, letting thoughts wander is exactly what people do when they DON'T practice WILD and just fall asleep, thus I found all this very curious... eh

Thanks, Basilus. I had read some parts of it a few months back but forgot. ^^

Yeah, the explaination is very confusing. It would have sounded more obvious if he had said something along the lines of 'passively observing your thoughts, without trying to influence them'. It's important to deliver simple and easy to understand information in wikis.

#7:  Author: Basilus West PostPosted: Sat 21 Jul, 2007
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Yes indeed, I wanted to translate this wikibook in french, but I found that there were too much dubious and unclear information in the english wikibook, so I'll make my own french version. wink

#8:  Author: Samsta2007 PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007
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can focusing on the phosphenes in your eyes help, or is that also false information?

#9:  Author: Hapexamendios PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007
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Samsta2007 wrote:
can focusing on the phosphenes in your eyes help, or is that also false information?

Yes, it helps a lot.

#10:  Author: MovieMe PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007
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I had 2 LD's in a row by actually letting my thoughs wander. It's all about distracting your mind from what's going on long enough for you to fall asleep, so, plan out a dream in which you are doing something lucid-related, but in this dream you are not lucid. Now, when you're lying in your bed, start fantasising about this "dream" you've made up a few hours ago. When I did this I watched my "dream" in my head (Like when you're daydreaming) and suddenly everything went completely black and I thought I had woken up completely. I could see some HI, blue and red dots floating around and all the sudden they transformed into a crystal clear picture of my bedroom (From the view of my bed). I focused on the picture and was litterally thrown into the dream.



Remember: The dream you made up must be lucid related so your thoughts wont wander off too much.

#11:  Author: Basilus West PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007
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Quote:
can focusing on the phosphenes in your eyes help, or is that also false information?

Yes, it's an existing technique. Don't think all is wrong in the wikibook, just some points are dubious. wink

@MovieMe: the technique you describe is not letting your thoughts wander, if I understand well. eh You're visualizing/imagining a planned dream scenario until you enter it lucidly. Or haven't I understood something?

#12:  Author: Hapexamendios PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007
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Basilus West wrote:
You're visualizing/imagining a planned dream scenario until you enter it lucidly. Or haven't I understood something?

I think I understand what was trying to be said in the wiki, now.

One morning, I wen't back to bed and paid attention to my thoughts. I was about to fall asleep when I noticed myself thinking about a Simpson episode that didn't exist and involved Homer doing research on different states of awareness. I then noticed it was a too complicated topic for the series and didn't want to WILD in there (I don't like the show much) but did it anyway.

So I projected into a random thought. Unless that thought was already a dream? I don't know where the subject came from: I don't watch the show.

VERY confusing. eh

#13:  Author: Samsta2007 PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007
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I was pondering this last night, I was thinking about paying attention to my thoughts, to see what randomly popped in my head, but I didn't get a chance to do this (stupid alarm clock didn't go off AGAIN!!!!) anyway I am still testing my ASMWILDBTB technique. I will try this once it has been tested.

#14:  Author: MovieMe PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007
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Basilus West wrote:

@MovieMe: the technique you describe is not letting your thoughts wander, if I understand well. eh You're visualizing/imagining a planned dream scenario until you enter it lucidly. Or haven't I understood something?


The dream scenario you've made up is only to be a "template". You let your thoughs wander off from there, so the chance is less that you will end up thinking of something completely non-lucid. So if my dream scenario is me being stuck in a lucid dream I let my thoughts wander off from there and just imagening being in that situation. After a while you will hopefully notice that you've fallen asleep.

#15:  Author: Basilus West PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007
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Hapexamendios wrote:
So I projected into a random thought. Unless that thought was already a dream?

Hapexamendios, the thought you describe was already something between HI and a dream, IMO.
Quote:
I think I understand what was trying to be said in the wiki, now.

If it were clear, we wouldn't be here asking us what it means. lachtraan
wikibook wrote:
Try not to think about anything for more than a second or two by constantly switching your attention. This simulates your thinking patterns when you are about to fall asleep.

It sounds like there is an idea behind that - simulation of thinking patterns, but it's not clearly explained cause we don't know what things we have to switch our attention between. Now as for me, I haven't noticed anything like that concerning the thinking patterns when falling asleep.

Thus what MovieMe describes doesn't fit with what the wiki says for instance, cause he lets his thoughts wander around a situation ( Have I understood now, MovieMe? wink5 ). On the contrary, the wiki says you have to change consciously your thoughts every 2 seconds. Still a mystery... whatsthat



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