The Lucid Dreaming Wall (mainly for new members)
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#1: The Lucid Dreaming Wall (mainly for new members) Author: Rhewin PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010
This post is for all the new dreamers that have recently joined us. LD's take time, and a lot of people give up very quickly once the don't have immediate satisfaction. Of course, experiences LD'ers may also get a few things out of this. I should be clear, this topic is not about how to get LD's, but how to not give up on LD's.

After being here for almost a year, I noticed that a lot of new dreamers only last for a few weeks (if even that long). It's been something I've been thinking on for a while. What is it that makes LD's lose their allure?

The best thing I can figure is that the amount of work (percieved or spent) is higher than the dreamer was willing to do. Mind you, a lot of them have created a good chunk of this extra work by trying to tackle some of the most difficult techniques out there. WILD seems to be a big killer, mainly because it requires a lot of personalization but the noobs don't know it. Perhaps it's the fact that when you read tutorials and FAQ's it all seems so cut and dry, but in practice it's a bit more difficult.

But I think the main thing is unreasonable expectations. How many posts are in the Quest for Lucidity right now that say things like "I've been trying WILD for a whole week and I haven't had an LD, what am I doing wrong?" It can take time to find the right sort of incubation, but most people don't realize that. It seems that they are looking for the easy way out. WBTB sounds like a pain, MILD just sounds like a placebo, its hard to remember to RC, etc. Ah, but WILD is big and shiny and fun and will give me LD's whenever I want. Sadly, the method described in most tutorials usually has to be adapted for the user, and it varies from person to person.

The other thing is also that the focus on techniques themselves, not the end result. As an example, many new dreamers get caught up on doing WILD "correctly." They want to say the "correct" mantra. They are afraid of skipping steps, changing things, getting things going. But, they end up only learning a technique. A technique is good, but what's the point if there's not purpose to it?

"But Rhewin, if I do the technique corretly, won't I get LD's?"

Good question, disembodied voice. Not necessarily. If the focus isn't on having a dream where you realize you are dreaming (i.e., an LD) then those techniques won't get you anywhere. What's the point of laying in bed watching pretty images if your goal is to see HI and not go in to your dream? What's the point of saying "tonight, I will have a lucid dream," if it's only empty words?

So how do new dreamers get around this dreaming wall? How do they keep their interest? Well, I have several suggestions.

1. Set a reasonable goal; you may not have an LD for quite some time. Don't pressure yourself, you'll just add stress that could prevent LD's.

2. Don't do WILD every single time you go to sleep. If you are going to do it, do it 5-6 hours after first going to bed when you'll enter REM immediately. The beginning of the night will only frustrate you and keep you awake. I would go so far to say don't even try WILD until you get some experience with inducing LD's, but it is a very good technique to know once you get it working.

3. Stay with only a few techniques a time. As I said before, these techs need personalization. You'll never figure out what works if you keep changing from WILD to VILD to HILD to FILD to CALD to M-WILD. Give it a couple of weeks per tech, and adjust it to fit your needs. (This is not to limit yourself on what techs you know, but to get good experience with each one)

4. Enter challenges like the LC or the Archangel's Challenge to keep your motivation up. These give you tasks that can be completed in ND's as well as LD's. At least you'll keep your focus up, and you'll be paying more attention to your dreams.

5. Enjoy your ND's. True, lucidity is amazing, but ND's take place in the same dream world, and can be just as exciting. Don't wake up and say "dang it, no LD." Instead, think about how awesome and/or realistic that last dream was.

There are many more things I want to say, but I don't want to turn this into a topic on how to do different techniques properly. We have a FAQ's and Tutorials section for that. Remember, don't give up just because you feel you aren't making progress. All of us have felt that way. The difference between someone who can LD and someone who can't is that the one who can didn't call it quits. LD's are only as hard as you make them, so what's it going to be for you?

I'd like to hear from you guys. What kind of goals are you setting (or set when you first started)? Are there other things making you lose motivation that I haven't discussed? Are there any experienced dreamers who would like to add something?

Anywho, I hoped this helped. Remember, there's a community of dreamers here to help you ^^

Last edited by Rhewin on Fri 18 Mar, 2011; edited 1 time in total

#2:  Author: dB_FTS PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010
It's cool post Rhewin thumbs, and I like it, because you make some very important things very clear. Just like you said, almost every new dreamer try to WILD. And I don't get it. They don't have DJ, no any recall and they want have LD's. And I hate it when somebody says that he tried every technique in a week and that he can't be lucid.

I know from my own experience, because i quit once before, but now I'm back. And I quit back then just because I had some changes in my life (big ones), and my recall wasn't so good any more, i I just couldn't keep my mind on dreaming and all this.

I don't know if I should write about this here but I would like to here your opinion Rhewin. I started of course with dream recall, so basically with DJ. When I start remembering dreams, about two or three peer night, I started with MILD and RC's. And few weeks back I've read about Castaneda technique, and added this to mine techniques (not basically mines but ones that I'm using). So far so good, but I've noticed that when something stressful happens it breaks my DR, but only for a night or two... What do you think? Is it a good start?

And sorry if's my post to long... Cheers

#3:  Author: WASD PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010
I've also noticed all the beginners talking about WILD. I've had over 100 LDs in a little more than one and a half year and I think I've succeed with WILD once. I have not really practiced it much but i realize that it is hard and nothing for beginners.

Your 5th point is very important and simple smile Although I don't call them Normal Dream anymore, I call them Non-lucid Dream wink5
Great post.

#4:  Author: Rhewin PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
Thank you both for the positive feedback ^^. I just hope this helps some new dreamers.

dB_FTS wrote:
So far so good, but I've noticed that when something stressful happens it breaks my DR, but only for a night or two... What do you think? Is it a good start?

And sorry if's my post to long... Cheers

I think it's a great start. RC's are the best thing for a beginner to try and work on IMO. If you can understand the concept of staying aware and always having a little doubt as the whether you're dreaming or not, you'll get LD's.

And don't worry too much about stress breaking your recall. It is something that I think everyone goes through. Just stay calm, and let yourself escape into your dreams ^^

#5:  Author: TheChris PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
I would like to point out something very important.
Rhewin, you mentioned the problem, that many people donīt want to work so much for LDing.
I have to admit, that this is exactly my problem, too.
Yes I would really like to have many LDs and deep down I KNOW its great an I have to stick to it, but.
1. LDing gets harder, the more doubts you have.
2. LDing gets harder, the smaller the part of your mind you have reserved for it is.
3. LDing gets harder, the more stress it is to integrate things like writing in the DJ etc. in your daily life.

The result theese points is: You have to tidy up your life. Dont go to bed to late, dont play computer till you go to bed, dont think at twelve or sth. " Hm I should do some LD related things now and then I will go to bed (-> you will go to bed at one or two and that`s not good)
Also, you need to have enough time in the Morning, so you can wake up slowly and have time to remember and write your dreams (what may take more than half an hour if you write details and not only some keywords) . This means: DO NOT GO TO BED TO LATE. Also avoiding alarms would be better.
Also make LDing part of your life in general. Like your hobby that you do for about 10 years now is always present in your mind.

If I would do all this things, I know, LDing would come to me. Maybe not every night, but more and more and it would be great.

But to do all this things, I would have to tidy up my life, to change my life consequently, stop being lazy all the time and stop to spend my evening in front of the computer because i`m (")exhausted("). Also I personally would have to make a deal with my parents so they donīt disturb me because I hate to hear `them coming in my room when i am meditating or sth. ( In fact I still have not told my father about LDing, only my mom and I think she has already forgot about it. Because of this I do LD related stuff only when they go to sleep what does not help with " dont go to bed to late" ^^ )

And when I do not go for it and clean my lazy lifestyle, LDing will always be hard and a lot of work. it is a vicious circle when I don`t do it really, because small success leads to more doubts and the doubts to less success and less motivation.

I think this a main reason why many people give up after the first boost of motivation is fading. Also when you have been sticking with it for some time, this problems can make you stumble. ( I started LDing little more than one year ago and since summer holidays, I gave it up a little. Before autumn holidays I came back with new motivation because as I mentioned, I feel that LDing is something i want, I took part in the ND Challenge, but circumstances were bad and it soon went to the dogs again. Now I refuse to give up and start to slowly get back to it and be serious about it.)

Ah--- and..... It`s after twelve o clock again wink
Just as described.

Rhewin thanks for the topic it helped me because it made me formulate some things I would not talk about otherwise.

Regards, Chris

eek2 haha wall of text. Im sorry.

#6:  Author: Rhewin PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
I'm glad to know it helped, Chris. Hopefully you'll be able to start setting aside some time for LD'ing. I know how difficult it is once you lose that motivation. I gave up on LD's for three years, and it wasn't until I started getting some spontaneuos DILD's that I really got back into it.

Really, I'm beginning to think that if people would just stick with it until the first LD (or first LD after a dryspell for older members), motivation wouldn't be so much of an issue.

#7:  Author: joyness Panda PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
Nice post Rhewind ! Myself beeing a begginner noob that joined this forum two days ago, I know that we all can give up quickly.

The truth is, when i first started reading about dreams journals, I was like : ''Remembering your dreams? Even more detailed dreams? HELL YEAH''

Before, I only remembered like 1 dream every two weeks and it was just fragments, and I don't know why, but I just LOVE dreams so I made myself a goal to remember at least one dream every night. I know i'm not gonna give up because it's not a pain in the a$$ at all to have a ND but not a LD. Everytime I remember my dream, I tell myself how it was cool and that the next night, it's gonna be even more awesome.

I really wanna do LDs, and NDs for me are everything but an obstacle, it's more of a step between you and lucid dreaming.

I think people should first focus on how dreams are cool, instead of how lucid dreams are cool. smile Don't you think i'm giving up if I don't post on this forum, i'm always on it but most of the topics are about lucid dreams experiences and tips tounge2

BTW sorry for my bad english and for using ''cool'' too much lol, I'm a frenchie.

Last edited by joyness Panda on Wed 15 Dec, 2010; edited 1 time in total

#8:  Author: Rhewin PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
Nah, you're English is fine. You've definitely gota good point on ND's (hence me including it in the guide). So many people discount them but I've had some amazing adventures in them. It's like I was saying before, starting out by building DR and learning to RC all the time is the best way to go. Getting used to your dreams and used to spotting them is a valuable tool. Techniques such as WILD and MILD need to have this skill, but too many people want to jump straight to instant LD's.

#9:  Author: joyness Panda PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
I'm happy we think the same way about this. tounge2

Younger, I've tried something similar to WILD because I really wanted to do OBEs (or astral projections) and let me tell you, after months of trying, I still failed xD. Discovering LDs on the internet, I knew i shouldn't do the same mistakes. (I also knew that if I failed making a lucid dream, I would still have an amazing experience of having an ND.)

Most of people enjoy dreams and find them fun, Lucid Dreams are ways to make it even more fun, but not to make normal dreams something boring. If you find your NDs awesome now, you should still find them awesome after dozens of LDs IMO. Dreams are dreams. smile

#10:  Author: WASD PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
TheChris wrote:

Yes. Most of my LD's take place on Saturday morning after a long sleep after the school week is finished. And i notice that nights with less hours of sleep have less dreamrecall and LD's.

#11:  Author: manplant PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
Hey there.

Beautyful forum. smile I've been looking for such a place for a long time.
I know about lucidity for I don't know, more then 5 years I guess... With me it was just like described in the first post. A couple of days/weeks of "training" and then nothing for a while. and over and over again. I realy don't know how many times i have tried and failed. Had some ocasional LD's which I couldnt even recal propperly. Tough times. smile
But lets say it was about 3 months since I decided (and this time for real) to start the journey once again and walk all the way.
Now I'm writting a DJ, sometimes only a few words, sometimes nothing and rarely also a couple of pages. My DR is weak but still better then nothing. I'm RCing all the time, besides that, I have even had a LD and it was pretty amazing... Could'nt recal it all the way and the percentage of my lucidity was pretty poor, but I'm still glad I had it... :D
Now I'm trying out all sorts of different techniques, but wasn't successful with any of them (besides that one time, i had a MILD). I don't realy know how to do a successful "training" programe, so I guess im stucked somewhere in the semi-dreaming hell... Hehe.
Well I will gladly accept any tips or tricks from any dreamer, and maybe if I get lucky, I would love to get/meet/work with a dream mentor...

Sorry for all the grammar mistakes, but this "window" I having a prety fun time teasing me... :D

A snowy greet from Slovenia.

#12:  Author: WASD PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010
Hey manplant welcome

It's hard to say how i achieve lucidity and how i recall my dreams. Rhewins post sums it up pretty good. The only thing i can think of right now is Don't try too hard.

A technique that I've been successful with lately is DEILD or Chaining. It's a bit similar to WILD but you induce it right after waking up from another dream. Look it up smile

#13:  Author: manplant PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010

There is one thing bothering me about DEILD. How can I write down my dream if I'm not "alowed" to move?

#14:  Author: Rhewin PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010
manplant wrote:

There is one thing bothering me about DEILD. How can I write down my dream if I'm not "alowed" to move?

Well, with DEILD you technically wouldn't be done dreaming. You'd be chaining one dream to another, so you'd write it down once you have completely finished. If you feel you can't get back into a dream after a while, go ahead and stop to write and then go back.

As with WILD, the suggestion to not move doesn't completely effect teh outcome, but it will make it much easier to slip back into a dream. For instance, if you have to swallow or you're in a very uncomfortable position, it would probably be ok to move. You just don't want to completely wake yourself up.

#15: This is very helpful Author: PaceMaster PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010
Great Post! It is very helpful!

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