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Why God was so vengeful in the OT - Part II

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Shaper
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Why God was so vengeful in the OT - Part II
PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2005  Reply with quote

<mod>This is a continued discussion. Part I can be found here</mod>

I think after reading all those posts, I get what you mean finally smile
I like how you always capitalize I AM. It makes it easier to get
Very nice smile


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Bagels 'n Oranges
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

actually, I believe rather than the church of life it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. While we both believe in one church, it seems that we believe it in two different ways. It appears to me that you believe that it is not exactly the religion that matters, but the ideology of life, love, etc. While those are certainly important, I believe that there is more to it. What you describe seems to be that all religions have an essance of truth to it, and that these truths are here to guide one to the truth of all things. I, however, believe that other religions may have bits and pieces of truth but there is one church that has the fullness of the gospel (not just a faith that is a stepping stone to truth). One thing that I think divides our beliefs is what we belief our existance is. Do you believe that when we appeared on this earth that our first moment of existance occured, or do you believe that before we came to earth we existed? Where do you believe we go when we die? Do you believe that the truth can be made known to us, or do you believe that the truth is something of a mystery? We are pretty much all guided by our experiences, and that inculdes me. While my experiences include reading scriptures and supporting what I believe through research, there is more to it than that. I mean, a person can support their beliefs with scripture referances and such, but that only goes so far. Sincere prayer and patience have confirmed my beliefs, as well as others other personal experiences (I think I am starting to sound repetitive smile). Anyway, thats all for now, I have to get some stuff done.

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Mindful
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Do You know why You believe in The Church Of The Latter-Day Saints? Because it is exactly what You need to believe in order to find the Truth. Have You not ever wondered why is it that the evidence for Your church has been so compelling to You but not neccesarily to another? It is because Your church has not neccesarily had what another has needed.
In eternity and wholeness, that is to say in Truth, churches and doctrine matter not. The only thing that is reality is God and You are a part of that reality. There have been those who have mocked My words because they believe Me to have said I AM God, You are God, We are God. This is incorrect I, You and Me are the fallacies only God is Truth and only Truth is True.
In answer to Your list of comparitive questions:
God is eternal that which I AM has come from God and through God, what else could I be but eternal. That which I AM has been "forever" in God. The creation of the finite universe and uneternal world in no way reflects My True Self.
No I did not come forth with the creation of the world.
The mind is trapped in the belief of seperation from God until the mind is free from that belief One will continually experience seperation from God. When the body falls away the mind will continue in the belief of being in a seperate place from God, until this is rectified One will not know "heaven".
When One dies they go where they believe they will go, until One realizes that there is no where to be but God.
The astral planes as they have been called are not "heaven" they are merely a different representation of seperation.
One is already dead in the belief of seperation from God, it is when One is Alive that they will enter "heaven" not when they are dead.
The Truth is God and God cannot be known when One believes themselves to have been seperated from God.
The Truth can be known, but first the belief of seperation must be overcome. One can know Truth when One is aware of Truth, if One believes Truth to be unobtainable (seperate) how can they become aware of it.


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Mindful
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Redstone
I AM pleased You have found meaning in My words where it would appear many have not.
In Truth I have said but only One thing and it is as such:
In Reality there is ONLY God and in Truth only that which is Real exists. Meaning:
The belief of seperation, of anything that is not Purely God is illusion, if One is to see The Truth (Reality) all illusions MUST fall away or Ones vision will be obscured.
This was the message of Christ
This was the teachings of The Buddha
The words of The Gita
And the lines of The Tao Te Ching.
In Truth there is only the One that is not Two.
Call that One what You will but until You know it AS One You do not know it at all.


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Shaper
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

So if I get it, its all akin to the Universe, or rather, the word universe. So many billions of things going on an billions of ways, but it all makes up one thing, the UNIverse.
Cool stuff indeed.


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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Kritches wrote:
Dream-Reacher, your describing the path of life as though through fog up one path of a mountain reminds me of the vision of the iron rod and the strait and narrow path, with the middle of the path shrouded in a mist of darkness (ever heard of it?). Anyway, I too hold to the belief that there is one true path (one true church) on this earth, because if God is perfect, why would he not have one true church to guide his children? How could he be the creator of the confusion that the many "correct" and different faiths would cause? I also believe that all will have a chance (if not many) to hear the gospel, if not in this life, then the next. It is because of my belief that I belong to the one true church that it takes such importance in my life. While I have looked at the beliefs of other faiths, I have not changed mine because of many personal experiences I have had. I do not expect those skeptical of the concept of God to understand what I mean (it is hard to put it into words), but for all its worth I have a personal knowledge (I say personal knowledge because this is something that I do not doubt, a fact that brings incredible comfort into my life) of the gospel. Its kinda odd to say this on a forum since it seems dry as just words, and they lose emotion, but hey, this is what the Philosopher's Cloud is here for right?

I totally know what you mean.


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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Josh Redstone wrote:
I think after reading all those posts, I get what you mean finally smile
I like how you always capitalize I AM. It makes it easier to get
Very nice smile

Frankly, it kind of annoys me. That name belongs to one...


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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Kritches wrote:
actually, I believe rather than the church of life it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. While we both believe in one church, it seems that we believe it in two different ways. It appears to me that you believe that it is not exactly the religion that matters, but the ideology of life, love, etc. While those are certainly important, I believe that there is more to it. What you describe seems to be that all religions have an essance of truth to it, and that these truths are here to guide one to the truth of all things. I, however, believe that other religions may have bits and pieces of truth but there is one church that has the fullness of the gospel (not just a faith that is a stepping stone to truth). One thing that I think divides our beliefs is what we belief our existance is. Do you believe that when we appeared on this earth that our first moment of existance occured, or do you believe that before we came to earth we existed? Where do you believe we go when we die? Do you believe that the truth can be made known to us, or do you believe that the truth is something of a mystery? We are pretty much all guided by our experiences, and that inculdes me. While my experiences include reading scriptures and supporting what I believe through research, there is more to it than that. I mean, a person can support their beliefs with scripture referances and such, but that only goes so far. Sincere prayer and patience have confirmed my beliefs, as well as others other personal experiences (I think I am starting to sound repetitive smile). Anyway, thats all for now, I have to get some stuff done.

Once again, I agree(except for the LDS thing). So you're mormon and believe in the teachings of Joseph Smith and the book of mormon and all that?


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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

NewbieLD wrote:
Redstone
I AM pleased You have found meaning in My words where it would appear many have not.
In Truth I have said but only One thing and it is as such:
In Reality there is ONLY God and in Truth only that which is Real exists. Meaning:
The belief of seperation, of anything that is not Purely God is illusion, if One is to see The Truth (Reality) all illusions MUST fall away or Ones vision will be obscured.
This was the message of Christ
This was the teachings of The Buddha
The words of The Gita
And the lines of The Tao Te Ching.
In Truth there is only the One that is not Two.
Call that One what You will but until You know it AS One You do not know it at all.

A logical fallacy. If all that exists is God and reality, there is no illusion. In a mentally-ill person, there are things in the brain that cause illusion. But if all that exist are 1 and 2, 3 cannot be included with them.


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Mindful
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Firstly You are correct that name does belong to One and One is all there is.
Secondly this illusion is a logical fallacy, I must say I Love You, You constantly think Yourself to have debunked Me but have in fact reaffirmed what I say.
The illusion does NOT exist, it is only believed that it does.
Remember You are in the image and likeness of God meaning that You have pure creative potential, meaning that if You imagine the illusion and then consider it to be truth it WILL appear real, but believing it to be real does not make it so.
In Your current state of belief of seperation You are mentally ill, Your mind is not Whole.
It has been said that You have pure creative potential which is True but You can only create Truly when You create in Truth.
If the universe were True it would be eternal and would never fall away. God never falls away for He is eternal and You are with God and so You are eternal anything You create must be as You are, eternal. Perfection can only create perfection, otherwise it is not perfect. And so the family of God, that is the kingdom of God, which in fact is God, continues on and on forvever.
P.S There does not exist God AND Reality, God IS Reality.




Last edited by Mindful on Tue 03 May, 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Mindful
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Redstone You are entering into incredibly complex territory when one considers the limitations of words.
There are not many different things which create what You have called the UNIverse, the UNIverse is what appears to create the many different things. But even this is not correct for in fact there is only the UNIverse and anything that seems to not be purely the UNIverse is being percieved incorrectly.
People have accepted that the universe is made of One but they have then believed the universe to be real, the universe is not real, in Reality the only thing that is True is the One.
Hope this is understandable.


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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

How can a second be made in the image of all that is?You say that I am with God, but you have said that God is all there is. One cannot be with oneself in such a sense. If I AM that I AM will not create illusions, because I am all that IS. I would simply BE. I would BE. I would not create for myself an illusion. I would not seperate myself. I would not face the daily problems of self-esteem or sin or worry. I would not delight in the unbounding love my father has for me(by that I mean God if it's not obvious). Also, terms such as perfection don't make much sense without the oposite force. If perfection is all there is, how can there be real perfection? I don't know if this is clear, words can really be limiting sometimes.

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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

There is no I AM that is you and I, we are seperate entities. This is partly represented in our converging beliefs. You can call it ego or illusion, or whatever you want, but the pit of my soul knows it wrong, maybe yours knows its right. Point is we are not even one in purpose or belief, we are certainly not truly one.

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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Why? That is the question you must ask. Again words are limiting, but if you truly realize the question, I think you might understand that there has to be another. It's a profound question. Why? Why am I typing this at this moment? Why don't trees grow down? Why am I who I am? Who does the world operate in this kind of dimension and reality? The question of "why" really strikes a chord with me. It makes no sense to me, and through this question you find that there really is another being out there. It's a deep revelation and I don't know if you can understand what I mean...

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Enamored_Spirit
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PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2005  Reply with quote

Ohh, another point(sorry things just keep hitting me). Love inherently requires that which is outside yourself. For the most part anyways. While you can "love" yourself, it is not true and actual love. It is not the love that surpasses knowledge. If the universe is just me, that's an awfully cold and lonely thought. There can be no real love or relationship that way.

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