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Do we dream so we know reality exists?

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Probably_on_pcp
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Do we dream so we know reality exists?
PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

Do we dream so we know reality exists? I heard this once somewhere (maybe even in The Waking Life).

And I think it is a very deep and profound idea. In life we need opposites to be able to grasp things. We don't know what cold means if there is no such thing as hot, or there is no such thing as peace without war, etc.

So what would it be like if we wouldn't dream at all? Would we know that reality exists? Would we able to know we are alive?

I dream therefore I am?


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Astraea
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

That is an interesting idea.
That differnitly could happen. But if there were no dreams we couldnt be in reality wondering if we are in a dream because we would not know what dreaming is. We wouldnt know what a dream was like and so reality would just be. You know how you cant live without sleep does that include dreams?
And I dont think I am making any sense but oh well grin


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Ang
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

Christ... I sense a Yin and Yang theory here.

Actually, I'll keep it short...

It would seem that our sense of being is based on comparisons and the contrasts of opposites. And it would also seem that nothing is without its opposite - hot and cold, light and dark, large and small... (Although, I would love for someone to prove me wrong on this.) That is why there exists no complete utopia or dystopia. In fact, I do wonder what our existence would be like if we had nothing to compare and contrast existing aspects to... therein would have to lie either extreme chaos (dystopia), or complete nothingness (utopia).

I rather like Astraea's idea, though - that life simply would "just be." Such is probably somewhat the case for those who dream, but do not remember...


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mayan_dreams
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

The more that I lucid dream, the more that I notice that dreams and reality aren't really opposites. What dreaming has really done for me is helped me to deconstruct the notion of an objective reality, and given me insight into the ways that my conscious and unconscious mind shape my experience.

To me, my waking life and my dreaming life are both realities, albeit realities with significant differences.

As Dumbledore says, "Of course it is happening in your head, but why on earth should that mean it is not real?" colgate


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EndOfAllHopes
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

"Once upon a time, I, Chuang Tzu, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of following my fancies as a butterfly, and was unconscious of my individuality as a man. Suddenly, I awoke, and there I lay, myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming that I am now a man."

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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

I'm with Astraea on this one, If we don't know about dreams we would not wonder if we we're dreaming.
It seems that dreaming rather has the opposite effect, as the example of Chang Tzu shows. They raise the question.

I'm sure that we could enjoy anything we think is good without knowing of anything bad. But kowing bad we enjoy good alot more, and are thankful.


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mayan_dreams
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2007  Reply with quote

I think that hot and cold is a good analogy. We don't have hot for the purpose of understanding cold, or vice versa. They're equally important, and neither is inherently better than the other one. But having both helps us to understand the concept of *temperature*.

Likewise, our dreamstate does not exist in the service of our waking state, any more than our waking reality exists so that we know when we are dreaming. But the existence of both helps us to understand the concepts of reality and consciousness. We compare and contrast the two to see not only what is different, but what is the same also.

Also, it's worth noting that dreams are not the only form of altered consciousness - just the most accessible for most of us.


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