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do you want to hurt someone in your LD?

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shaihulud
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do you want to hurt someone in your LD?
PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I have been reading about people who fantasize about hurting other people (DC) in their dreams. I have also been more then wanting to do this, I have done it. Once I had a LD, I spoke with the guy (who was my friend in real life) and decided to just hit him to see how he would react. Another LD I did something insane, I took a chainsaw and saw of my legs. It didnt hurt but took lots of "curage" to do.
My question is: is this healthy? I mean its only about 3% I have these thoughts in my LD's but still...
I am a very calm and non violent person In real life, I don't believe in the use of it. Can that be why I fantasize about it in my dreams? is it some kind of more animal behaviour I just need to get our of my system. Like sex, If I don't have sex In a long while I get frustrated. It is something my body needs to keep my mind happy. But surely evelution would not make the body require violence? that would contradict the purpose of evolution itself.
Or is it because I am a man, And as a man I need to be better then other men in order to make sure I have strong offspring, or an offspring at all?
Just a random thought wink


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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

its you ,

you are every DC

a man refused to kill a colony of bees for no good reason ,
lifetimes later he lived in a village where each bee was a human who adored and provided for him

nothing is separated from causality , there is no goodness in violence, if it used it must be used with total clarity and compassion, not for the sake of it, but because it has met a reflection of the shadow which has to be cut away so that light can grow,

i almost all pragmatic cases love is the solution to all perceived issues,

the problem is that a being who is focused upon overcoming something will create instances of this thing to overcome when normally they would not be.

literally if you fight with DCs instead of working on peaceful compromise you are setting up future mental disorders in your imagiNation, they are there to help you understand your relationship with our universe.

this is different than actively playing games with willing participants, something such as paintball.


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Eric N
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

In one of my lucid dreams, I got angry because a little boy stuck his tongue out at me. I killed him without even meaning too. A small flash of anger, and he just disappeared. But I knew I killed him.

Violence could very well be an evolutionary principle. And I'd rather you get it out in your dreams then in real life. smile


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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I completely agree with you Presence of Light.
In real life as I said I am very peaceful and would never want to hurt another person physically or mentally. Even in situation when provoked. Like you say, I don't see violence solving most problems. I mean if I see a guy hitting a woman I would reason but if he continued I would have to react before it's to late.
But in my dream I know that no one gets hurt, if anything I am hitting myself. But as I said I have only had this wish one time. And it is out of curiousity rather then wishing to inflict damage. Because I have never hit a person I wanted to see what it was like.
And personally curiosity is one of the highest qualities in a person. Without that you will probably live a very boring and unfullfilling life according to my life philosophy...which for sure differs from others smile
But as I hinted in my post it's not naive 100% curiosity, 1% is a strange curiosity of the feeling of inflicting damage. And maybe you are right Presence of light. It might be unhealthy and a product of me not being 100% connected with the world. Even thou I think I am. Or it is like I said, something of a more animal instinct, a drive. I see myself as an animal, or I see a human as a animal. We have drives, evolution that pushes us ahead, even though in modern society we are supposed to be "more" then animals. Which I know people around me think they are and by hiding this fact they hide truth about themselves. haha, I'm starting to sound like Freud!
And As you say Eric, what better way to get this our of my system then in a dream? wink


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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

It's actually a very shamanic practice, to hurt your dreambody, to know you can't die from it, to be that brave to do it. The famous german LD researcher Paul Tholey has dismantled his whole body in a LD just to experience what that was like.

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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

that's crazy...or is it? As I said in one extreme LD I took a chainsaw and cut of my legs...just to see if I could do it, Of course my entire body and mind told me that it was madness, but I showed them! wink

Thanks for the input pasQuale. Very very interesting and I will research it more! Not that I have any intention, or fantasy of following it up in my coming LD's...done that, ready to move on to next experiment :D

Presence of light; can you honestly tell me you have never been curious what it would be like to hit another person? If you haven't then I guess you will go to nirvana after this life wink (symbolically speaking)


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Lord Antares
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I'd say you don't have to worry.I know why you do that stuff in your lucid dreams.
It's because you know no one will get hurt and because you can't do that kind of stuff IRL, so you just want to try it and have fun.I personally think that's nothing unusual and wrong.
Sure, some people use their lucid dreams to find out some things, practice, connect with divine creatures and that stuff.Others use it for fun.I use LD's for both tounge1


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underscore
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

I'm somewhere between, on this one. On the one hand, I think it's more spiritually beneficial and satisfying to use lucid dreams as an opportunity for self-exploration, using peaceful, calm means to learn more about yourself and the dreamworld. I find that if I spend my time talking to DCs and reveling in the environment, I feel a greater sense of calm and enlightenment.

I don't have any huge problems with acting out and throwing an honest-to-goodness punch to the face, though ^^ . Like Eric and Hraesvelg said, acting out in your dreams is much better than lashing out and hurting real human beings. We (especially men) are born with a slight tendency for violence, and it's generally healthy to let that out now and then (which, I think, is the reason we have sports; it's a healthy way to release those tendencies without anyone being hurt). And let's face it -- it's invigorating to tap into that urge, now and then.

I think that the most important factor in determining whether or not dream violence is harmful is your overall intent. I certainly don't advocate dreaming up someone you dislike in real life just so you can beat their DC to death. Nor do I think it is right to torture, rape, or commit any other sort of scarring/disturbing act against a DC. If you're committing those sorts of sadistic acts, it can't be healthy for you, mentally.

I tend to view any punching, shooting, etc. that I do in a lucid dream almost in the same way that I view playing a sport: it's not the hurting people that makes it fun, it's the competition, the fight for superiority and "survival," knowing that no one is actually being hurt (which is especially true for my dreams; often, DCs prove to be just as tough and resilient as I am, like superheroes in an epic battle). I don't generally start fights with DCs that don't engage me first, but when they do.. well, it's just like a wrestling match, or a paintball game (and heck, sometimes it actually is!).


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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

The thing is, when I hit this other person I didn't do it because I wanted to fight, to see who won, like a game. I actually didn't want to hit him at all eh . Like in real life my whole body and mind tells me no, don't use violence (unless there is no other way) And it took time in my dream to gather enough "curage" to hit him. And it felt really weird, I have never hit a person IRL. So in contrary to what has been said I did it to learn about myself, to put myself in a situation I haven't been in. And perhaps having done this I will be more calm if am ever put in the situation that I do need to hit someone.
I was in a fight in a non LD, It was a lightsaber fight between me and another Jedi. I felt the force guiding my every move and reacting on his motions even before he made them. It was a beautiful fight. And it had nothing to do with violence.
I mean it's only through the body we can reach trance or other different states of mind induced by meditation. And you need to learn your body's limits and possebilities as well as your mind's! ops, went a bit of topic, but I guess what I am trying to say is that fighting doesn't need to be for the sake of violence.
And I guess I was not seeking violence but new experiences to grow as a person.
I mean cutting my legs of was a bit extreme, But it was not for violence, it was to prove to myself I don't need my body anymore because it is a dream. And I don't think you can get this revelation in a better way if you sit down and discuss it with a DC.
Has anyone else put themselves in a situation, or done something they are really uncomfortable with? what was your experience?


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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

Violence in lucid dreams can create a really uncomfortable feeling. I guess it is instinct. A reaction to the sight and feel of it. You shouldn't do things you dont want to do. But sometimes you just want to get horrified, like when you watch a scary movie. The point is to get scared.
Aggression is ofcourse a very deep and old instinct. You say evolution would not make the body require violence. That it would contradict the purpose of evolution. I'm not sure what you mean. That the body would want to be injured seems strange, but that the body would want violence towards others. That is actually right on par with evolution. You see, evolution does not have a purpose. And when push comes to shove, if you are an animal that wants violence towards others, you will, if you are strong enough, kill them and take their place in the gene pool. Compared to peaceful individuals, or species, aggressive ones compete seriously. As a species we are young, and we have a part of our brain that is so prehistoric, it would take a very long time before this instinct disappears.
Aggression is one of those things we have to come to terms with. We have an inner brute. There is nothing bad about that. The world of dreams is the perfect place to get to know this brute. He is part of you, a big part. I always think of this, kind of '60s psychedelic movie concept, of the acid trip, where the hippie faces this reality, by living out the aggression in a primitive fasion, and kills someone, with all the emotions that go with it. And the point of this, is learning something about himself and humanity and the nature of the world, and accept it.

What better way to live out this idea, than in your dreams? In normal dreams I am usually pretty emotionally detatched, so lucid dreams are better for it. And I do sometimes just go ahead and stab someone, but it usually doesn't work. No blood comes, and they don't die. One person looked at me, and I just felt compassion. He seemed like he didn't need my stabbing him, he was feeling bad already. I would have said I was sorry. but he wasn't real. It kind of, screws with your head.


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shaihulud
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

Well, when I wrote that violence contradicts evolution I didn't mean the act of violence. How else are we supposed to kill our food or defend from becoming food. I meant the desire to use violence against someone for no reason, other then to see what happens. I asked It might be because I am a man, because men fight among themselves so that the strongest male can have kids and defend the others. So maybe this is where that desire comes from? or is is something triggered in me from the world I have grown up in.
However I don't have this desire at all in my waking life, just in my LD's where I don't hurt someone. And I think I do that because of curiosity, and like you say that we all have that self within us, more or less. And the perfect way to communicate with him, or her, is through our dreams. To get to know "it" without hurting real people.
But I am happy to hear that someone else have experimented with "violence" as well, so I am not crazy wink


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Lord Antares
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

Oh, you think killing animals for food is good?No.I could stand it if it had some order.But no, we kill more than we need.We don't kill only for food.We often kill just for fins, tusks, horns and other stuff.WE are responsible for deaths of many animals and their habits.WE are responsible for the global warming which will cause ice meltdown and heat.WE will be responsible when we all die.
Well, sorry for that, I felt like saying it wink5

Anyway, IRL people see me as a peaceful and good guy.I do not wish to harm anyone in any way.And I'm never violent IRL.However, in dreams and videogames, I'm very violent.
More than other people.In videogames I just walk around, kill everyone in my path, and anyone who insults me.I'm mercyless too.When someone tells me to spare his life I just stab him with a knife.Well, in dreams...recently I didn't get in touch with ordinary people in my dreams, so I didn't hurt anyone, but when I do, I'm sure I'm gonna walk around and bully people.Well, It's better that I'm violent in my dreams than IRL.


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krakatoa
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009  Reply with quote

Male lions kill the cubs of other males whenever they can. There is no discernable reason, really. They just hate them. This behaviour serves to diminish the spread of rival genes, and therefore it makes evolutionary sense. Random killings can serve to weed out the weak in a population. That is natural selection at work.

If one of our ancestor species ever developed (by natural selection) this urge to kill, it would automatically carry on, because only the random killers kill for no reason, the others live and let live which does nothing to weed out the weak. Thus, random killing, if it came up, which it certainly did, must have stuck with us.

Today it must seem like a ghost from the past, atavistic even, but the process of natural selection will never go away, until all species are extinct. So don't worry if you feel an urge to kill. It is nothing sick. It is healthy! It is the logical result of millions of years of evolution, and would serve even today to accomplilsh the same thing it did for millions of years. Besides, we have many instincts that keep us from acting out these urges in real life (and even in dreams, to which I can testify).

When it comes to curiosity, it is a natural thing, but what you are curious about depends on influences. So your upbringing has a hand in it. There is probably a complicated mix between influences and natural fascinations, that leads to a desire to, punch someone to see what happens. It is interesting to see how the person reacts, but it is even more interesting to see how one reacts oneself. You want to know if you are that brute, or can become that brute. Ofcourse aggression comes from the "reptile brain", so, it's even deeper than cave man behaviour. Imagine yourself as a lizard. This kind of exploration is perfect for dreams. How else can you tap into that lizard brain of yours and try to ignore "higher" functions, and where else it is at all acceptable?

If you can't go nuts in your dreams, you can't go nuts anywhere!!! Go ahead! Be violent if you wish! Be selfish! Why not? That kind of liberating experience of just going with impulses, no matter how crazy they would be in real life, just can't be found anywhere else! Cutting off your leg with a chainsaw is a perfect example.


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dr3am
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

[size=7][size=9]
Presence of Light wrote:
literally if you fight with DCs instead of working on peaceful compromise you are setting up future mental disorders in your imagiNation, they are there to help you understand your relationship with our universe.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Although I can not speak on personal experience of my psychological onset from the future, I (like everyone here since no evidence can or is presented) speak on personal opinion though. I'm 16, and I've been a vegetarian for a few years now, in an area with heavily, strong headed conservatives (never got along with most, due to our completely conflicting viewpoints). Along with me being the only one a vegetarian, and most


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dr3am
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011  Reply with quote

of my family hunts, it was essentially all my decision. Although I am peaceful externally, my inside I do hold extremely violent tendencies. I have often done some pretty bad things to people in my dreams (because they were hurting my cats) and needless to say, it was pertty aweful what I did to them. However, I do need to say that I don't regret it because well, it's a dream. Although I really don't like to rely on Inception for dream information, I believe they put it best when they said that DC's are "projections", not an actual part of the SC or mind. Not all DC's are there to help you, I can assure you this from my personal experience. The waking concious is awake when you are in a dream, so it's not like you are tampering with your SC because you are aware of it, and are not relying on your SC for these actions. If you were to do this by means of your SC acting it out, I still don't believe it means you WOULD do that, it just means you want to. It applies to sex and jumping off a building; just because you want to do it IRL, doesn't mean you will.

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