EN | NL | FR
Current Wings Quest 130
Rainbow Connection

Violence in Lucid Dreams

Post new topic Reply to topic

Author  Message 
sgxbeava
New member
New member
30
Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Last Visit: 21 Jul 2009
LD count: 3
Location: Japan
 
Violence in Lucid Dreams
PostPosted: Sun 19 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

In my first LD (before I really knew what they were), since I knew I was in a dream, I decided to do something I would never do in real life. Turns out that was me punching a random guy in the face.

Anyone else had experiences like this? Punching, stabbing, shooting or otherwise hurting dream characters in an LD?


back to top
Wild Night
Lucid Initiate
Lucid Initiate
Posts: 97
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Last Visit: 04 Nov 2009
 
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

yes, that's one of the things so appealing about lucid dreams. I can do whatever I want. In one dream I was insulting everybody and attacked a woman. Of course I wouldn't do that in real life.

back to top
sgxbeava
New member
New member
30
Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Last Visit: 21 Jul 2009
LD count: 3
Location: Japan
 
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

I lurked a bit more, mostly in the threads dealing with what people want to do in their LDs, and almost every other person had some sort of violent act in their to do list. I guess here's a question: is it moral to kill someone in a dream that is exactly like reality?

back to top
Fallen Youth
Astral Explorer
Astral Explorer
24
Posts: 346
Joined: 29 May 2009
Last Visit: 22 Nov 2011
Location: California
 
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

i dreamed i crashed a plane purposely if that counts ^^

back to top
30
Chat Mods
Posts: 1444
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Last Visit: 26 Jul 2017
LD count: 13
Location: Hunting...
 
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

There was a similar topic about this "do you want to hurt someone in your LD?" you might be interested in. smile


Current LD goal(s): Become a Dragon! RAWR!
back to top
Wild Night
Lucid Initiate
Lucid Initiate
Posts: 97
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Last Visit: 04 Nov 2009
 
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

sgxbeava wrote:
I lurked a bit more, mostly in the threads dealing with what people want to do in their LDs, and almost every other person had some sort of violent act in their to do list. I guess here's a question: is it moral to kill someone in a dream that is exactly like reality?


I think it's better to get the beasts in us out in a lucid dream. It's a better alternative then actually killing someone and going to prison.


back to top
Union7
Music Obsessed.
Lucid Initiate
27
Posts: 81
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2009
LD count: A lot
Location: Here. Or not
 
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

In lucid dreams, you can do anything, without consequence. I've done a lot of violent things in them.

back to top
TwilightDreamer
Dream Deity
Dream Deity
Posts: 821
Joined: 19 May 2007
Last Visit: 18 Jun 2015
 
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

At the OP: Actually, lucid dreaming is not real life. As close as it might look, sound, feel and taste - it is merely a creation of our mind. What you see and hear exists only as data in your mind, and not as anything else. You can revive it as easy as you can kill it.

At any rate, it can be compared to videogames. Is it moral to kill something in a videogame? Does it really matter how realistic it feels?

- One could say, that killing anything, either real or imaginative, shouldn't happen: That killing should be something people don't experience neither IRL nor in DWs (And thus videogames), and that any sort of bloodshed leads to more bloodshed (Which will eventually reach real people)
- On the other hand, one could say that if someone is practicing killing in an imaginative world, they feel much less compelled to do the same IRL - since in their minds, they have already dealt with that person.

Now of course, we are speaking of "normal" levels of killing here: Not of obssesivly planning the death of a person again, and again, and again - just punching them in the face, or shooting them, etc.

In my personal opinion, the exact person we are speaking of matters - And as it goes for most people, killing stuff in dreams will avert killing IRL (Though most people won't kill IRL anyhow). On the other hand, I do believe some people might be motivated to kill after successfuly killing someone in a dream - though they are a very, very small minority, who will get to hurting someone eventally regardless of their dreams (and videogames).


back to top
Lord Antares
Limitless
cookie lover
Lord Antares has successfully completed an LD4all Quest!
Scribes
Posts: 1074
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Last Visit: 26 Jan 2013
Location: Croatia
 
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

Union7 wrote:
In lucid dreams, you can do anything, without consequence. I've done a lot of violent things in them.


Does that mean you would just kill people IRL if you wouldn't go to jail?
Nice.

I wouldn't ever kill anyone IRL, killing leads nowhere, as well as violence.
Killing is for weaklings who can't deal with something.

Of course, I wouldn't kill people IRL, even if it were legal.

Anyway, yeah, I agree with TwilightDreamer.Lucid dreams(and normal ones) are a creation of our mind, so I don't think it's immoral to kill someone in the dream.


back to top
krakatoa
cookie lover
cookie lover
35
Posts: 1375
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 07 Oct 2013
Location: Luleň, Sweden
 
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

In one of my first lucid dreams, I tried punching people in the face. It's just a silly thing to do. It is that feeling of freedom. You can do whatever you want, even punch random people in the face. It's funny. I mean, imagine if you did that IRL, it would be ridiculous. There was no malice in it anyway. No aggression to release, just playfulness. Kittens play by fighting, why shouldn't we? What do you think they dream about? You can't go around second guessing yourself in dreams, that's totally neurotic! If we can't go nuts in our dreams, where can we go nuts?
I don't bother with morals much since it's all invented anyway, but when you kill someone in a dream, you're not killing anybody, so why would that be a problem? Like cartoons, dream characters can be dead one second and alive the next. It's just images and sounds and such.


back to top
Yves
Frightened Butter
Astral Explorer
27
Posts: 308
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 03 Sep 2013
Location: Thought Space
 
PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

TwilightDreamer wrote:

At any rate, it can be compared to videogames. Is it moral to kill something in a videogame? Does it really matter how realistic it feels?


True, but videogames are very impersonal. You control a character, sometimes not even first person, through a controller, which is a very impersonal device. Dreaming, on the other hand, is a first hand experience. It's a simulation your mind produces, thus you are 'in' it. Committing violence when you have direct control over what happens is much more personal than only have a limited control of the situation.



Current LD goal(s): Stabilize a dream and explore it.
back to top
Union7
Music Obsessed.
Lucid Initiate
27
Posts: 81
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2009
LD count: A lot
Location: Here. Or not
 
PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

Hraesvelg wrote:
Union7 wrote:
In lucid dreams, you can do anything, without consequence. I've done a lot of violent things in them.


Does that mean you would just kill people IRL if you wouldn't go to jail?
Nice.

I wouldn't ever kill anyone IRL, killing leads nowhere, as well as violence.
Killing is for weaklings who can't deal with something.

Of course, I wouldn't kill people IRL, even if it were legal.

Anyway, yeah, I agree with TwilightDreamer.Lucid dreams(and normal ones) are a creation of our mind, so I don't think it's immoral to kill someone in the dream.


Same here, I could never take a life IRL.


back to top
TwilightDreamer
Dream Deity
Dream Deity
Posts: 821
Joined: 19 May 2007
Last Visit: 18 Jun 2015
 
PostPosted: Sun 26 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

Yves wrote:
TwilightDreamer wrote:

At any rate, it can be compared to videogames. Is it moral to kill something in a videogame? Does it really matter how realistic it feels?


True, but videogames are very impersonal. You control a character, sometimes not even first person, through a controller, which is a very impersonal device. Dreaming, on the other hand, is a first hand experience. It's a simulation your mind produces, thus you are 'in' it. Committing violence when you have direct control over what happens is much more personal than only have a limited control of the situation.


Perhaps this is true; However, as far as the accounts of dream murder I have seen go - Most killing and hurting in dreams doesn't feel quite as realistic as RL ones. Specifically, killing generally occurs when the victim is out of sight, or by a relativly small injury - As if the death of that person is a fact, rather than something that the dreamer caused. I believe the dreamer knows of that - The dreamer is aware to the fact that the death isn't realistic in most cases. Therfore, the dreamer is less immersed - unlike certain videogames and movies, where you can see very detailed ways of dying.


back to top
krakatoa
cookie lover
cookie lover
35
Posts: 1375
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Last Visit: 07 Oct 2013
Location: Luleň, Sweden
 
PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

Videogames can be quite immersive. Obviously not as immersive as a dream can be, but it is still not reality, but a simulation, just like a video game. If the question is, "how immersed are you in the experience?", then it leaves it open to say that if you murder somebody IRL, but you're not really into it, that is less immoral than if you experience it with high intensity. That can be manifested in somebody taking sedatives before going on a killing spree, and he is then acting more morally than someone who does the same thing sober.
Does that make sense? The intent is all the same, the urge to kill, and the result is also the same, the death of people. From a consequentialist point of view, it's all the same, and from a virtue/vice point of view it's the same, from a rights point of view it's all the same. With dreams being hte subject, can it be immoral at all? If the urge is not to kill real people, but only to pretend, then is it a vice? There are no consequences to speak of. Although the subject can be debated, it has yet to be proven that dream characters are actual persons, and it seems as of yet, to be the case that they are not, so nobody's rights are being violated. From a Kantian point of view, if everybody killed dream characters whenever they felt like it, the world would still be the same.


back to top
Lord Antares
Limitless
cookie lover
Lord Antares has successfully completed an LD4all Quest!
Scribes
Posts: 1074
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Last Visit: 26 Jan 2013
Location: Croatia
 
PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009  Reply with quote

Dream characters are a part of your dream.Of your mind.
If you kill a dream character, he just might appear in the next dream.
And they usually do( if you see them often in your dreams).

It is just your imagination.OK, imagine a man in your mind...Now imagine that you killed him with any weapon.Now, is that a crime?
I don't think so.It's just what you imagine.Just like dreams.

Well, this is what I think about it.


back to top
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

print  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB
LD4all ~ spreading the art and knowledge of lucid dreaming online since 1996 ~