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Dream characters: Friends or Puppets?

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Namine
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Dream characters: Friends or Puppets?
PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009  Reply with quote

So, suppose you were a typical lucid dreamer; one who does it every night. Would you consider dream characters whom you see and talk to everytime friends (to a certain extent) or just puppets; figments of your imagination? I understand there are limits. I mean, if I or someone else were to ever "fall in love" with a character from our dreams, I would find that highly unhealthy - mentally that is.

I'm not really sure how I feel about this certain topic, which is why I'm leaving it up to my lovely fellow dreamers here on ld4all. tounge2

So basically, I wanted to hear everyones thoughts.
Do you think it's okay to consider dream characters as friends,(once again to a certain extent, I'm going to leave that one up to you) or just puppets?
Explain.
Hehe, I feel like some sort of professor! biggrin


~Namine


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mattias
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Well, I don't have much... experience with DC's (in LD's that is)
I rarely have a decent conversation, so I'm far from making a real DC friend cry I guess it's ok. I don't really like to see DC's like puppets, even if I see them as a part of my personality...

I've fallen in love with a DC (but only in a ND) but the feeling ended when I woke up. Actually falling in love with a DC and repeatedly meeting them would be weird. Might feel good but I agree it doesn't sound really healthy in the long run.... sadblauw


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kek
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Re: Dream characters: Friends or Puppets?
PostPosted: Tue 01 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Namine wrote:
So, suppose you were a typical lucid dreamer; one who does it every night.


I wish cry

Well, before I move on, I want to say that I feel dreams are made of emotions - you leave your rational mind behind: that's why everything is so awe-inspiring and we don't really mind pink elephants dancing around and count them as normal. That being said, I like to deal with DC as friends (to a certain extent). Lets expand the reasons:

- I like to think I'm doing that to everyone IWL or while dreaming.
- Some of the DC are my friends from waking life, so I try to deal with them in the same matter.
- Some people say that DC are real entities... I don't really believe them, but better safe than sorry, eh?
- If dreams are emotions, then your SC is providing them based on your life... I feel it's better to deal with them as equals and try to learn something about yourself than just treat them like puppets.

Next topic: Funny thing you mentioned falling in love with a DC, because today I dreamt of a gal, and in my dream I said I'd might propose to her sometime. Don't get me wrong - I haven't seem my girlfriend for months (she lives in another city), and this dreamgirl was perfect in everyway for me: she was beautiful, sang marvelously, liked the same things/hobbies as I, was funny, etc... What I want to say is that probably this was my SC trying to make up for me emotionally, as I miss my girlfriend very much, it gave a super girl I can relate and feel love mutually while sleeping. I mean, I won't plan on marrying her now knowing she's a DC, but I would like it very much if I could dream with her again, she was very fine. Nothing wrong with that, right?


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TwilightDreamer
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

For some reason, I could never think of dream characters as anything other than shadows IWL. They have their meaning only when inside the dream - and never outside it.

Therefore, I take dreams as a stroll to their domain: I am just a visitor, who happens to know more than them - and be able to control many things they cannot.

On the other hand, I might lack some common logic - common dream logic - that they have.

Therefore, while I prefer to treat them as equals, I can never think of them just this way - eventually, we are too different. They are more of pets than humans. While one might sacrifice themselves to save their dog - the dog has little meaning to life without it's master. And while your dog can certainly do some things far better than you do - You are the one who feeds it.

Just my two cents - Though my LDs are not many.


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Namine
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Hmm, I like everyone's answers! You guys make sense, and I agree.

I suppose everyone has their way of thinking about it. After all, it's their world and logic right?

Well, this pretty much sums up my curiosity, but if anyone comes across this topic and wants to post their opinion, please do! Hehe.


Happy dreams everyone,
~Namine


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gkimelblat
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

I have an imaginary friend (a created DC) that I use to talk to him IWL as an atempt to do CALD, but the only time I really saw he in a dream we were running from something and he Asked me for helping him to get out that place... It was really weird...

But I think some times DC's may be just reflections of your own SC, however sometimes you may dream with people you've never met before but they do exist in the real world!! (of course not exactly as in the dream world, but still is weird to dream about someone than later you discover that he/she exists and with the exact name and face of your dreams!!!).

So, I don't think of DC as puppets anyway!! I can't say they are "friends", but they surely have some purpose to help you somehow in your real life, being them just interpretations from your SC or manifestations from real people...


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trophycase
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

to me, my DC's aren't really friends or puppets. I know that they don't exist outside of my mind, but i usually respect them (unless my intent is to purposely disrespect or hurt them) because they often times tell me some very unexpected, but helpful, information. I see them as my peers. i respect them as another being of my dream. they have their own thoughts just like i do. befriending them isn't normal for me because i don't have many DC's that i see on a regular basis.

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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Seems simple: If they do anything or everything you want, they are puppets with no character whatsoever.

(LMAO)


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Grand Speculator wrote:
Seems simple: If they do anything or everything you want, they are puppets with no character whatsoever.

There is a note to this however: many people are not in control of their whole mind, and as such, they are not in complete control of their dreams. Many people look for their SC in dreams, and that's because there's not a stable and clear link to it during daytime.

Similarly, like you can or cannot control elements of a dreamscape, you can voluntarily (in a best-case scenario) choose whether to control or not any part of a DC, form the body to its emotions, to its memories, and whatever else.
In such a way, a DC can both stay stable and still be completely independent form the choices of the conscious mind, and become almost a separate entity, if one lets it be so. It's a way like another to access another part of our mind (for example, it could write poetry that you, as in the conscious you, didn't think about beforehand), and also a way to bring more familiarity with Lucid Dreaming in general.



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Spec (gone)
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Tosxychor wrote:
Grand Speculator wrote:
Seems simple: If they do anything or everything you want, they are puppets with no character whatsoever.

There is a note to this however: many people are not in control of their whole mind, and as such, they are not in complete control of their dreams. Many people look for their SC in dreams, and that's because there's not a stable and clear link to it during daytime.

Similarly, like you can or cannot control elements of a dreamscape, you can voluntarily (in a best-case scenario) choose whether to control or not any part of a DC, form the body to its emotions, to its memories, and whatever else.
In such a way, a DC can both stay stable and still be completely independent form the choices of the conscious mind, and become almost a separate entity, if one lets it be so. It's a way like another to access another part of our mind (for example, it could write poetry that you, as in the conscious you, didn't think about beforehand), and also a way to bring more familiarity with Lucid Dreaming in general.


Good point. Actually this might come as a surprise for many, but we don't have such a thing as a "concious mind". What we call our everyday self is the sum of a vast amount of thoughts as self-images that we identify as ourselves, taking turns in handling us.

People lacks of psychic integrity, something greatly described by Gurdjieff and Ounspensky in many of their books.

In the case of lucid dreaming it depends on the general intent of the dream. If you intent an empty landscape or a populated city. At any rate you are in direct or indirect control of everything your mind projects.

The questionis: Is it all being projected by you?


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

That was I was trying to say: many people do identify themselves with their thoughts, losing often a stable contact with the rest of the mind.

It is of course possible to gain control of oneself and be conscious to the whole mind, but it is not the norm, and as such, terms like conscious and SC become useful in describing the workings of the everyday mind.

Like many can do an action without participating in it (like driving home on autopilot), in the same way a dream can or cannot be directly controlled by the conscious dreamer; it is all a product of our mind, of course, but we can willingly leave the workings unknown to the present experience of the self.



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Namine
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PostPosted: Thu 03 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

I like where you guys are going with this. Your tapping into what I was really trying to portray. Like how it was mentioned that a dream character could possibly think for itself and come up with something that you wouldn't have in real life. (Referring to what Tosxychor said) And also how it was mentioned that a dream character could do so if one let it.

So, let's say you do. You're somehow able to let the dream character develop it's own personality. What then? I say that'd be pretty cool/interesting. A new friend maybe? (once again, to that certain extent)

smile


~Namine


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PostPosted: Thu 03 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

The fundamental point of meditation is that you shut off the movie that goes on in your head.

No movies means no actors and no actors means not having something to identify yourself with.


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Thu 03 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

And that's one of the reasons why I am practicing it I even let almost completely go of the idea of having a DG... (my SC told me I would have to create one myself); you could say DC are a way of communicating with different sides of yourself while you're going for the enlightenment smile

Anyway, back on topic, having a persistent DC with you is very cool to begin with, and more so to a friends' person; I'd say it's a very nice way to look forward to next LD's, thus raising chances of having them.
Just keep in mind that they're always a part of yourself, so there's not really the risk of the relationship running on undesired tracks (you do like yourself afterall, don't you? biggrin), plus whatever they did for you (like sharing some insight, or some art), it was really you, doubling the reasons to be happy colgate .



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kek
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PostPosted: Thu 03 Dec, 2009  Reply with quote

Namine wrote:
So, let's say you do. You're somehow able to let the dream character develop it's own personality. What then? I say that'd be pretty cool/interesting. A new friend maybe? (once again, to that certain extent)


I find that an odd statement. Disclaimer: I don't mean to imply it's "wrong" in any way!!!

I believe I'm a friend's person (as Tosxychor puts it), and also a weakling empath, which means I have a little insight to people's emotions - that explains a lot of my life, and why I've always been attracted to acting, music, writing, friends and many other things.

So, what strucks me as odd is that although I don't have any recurring DC s (except people IWL which do reoccur), every single DC of mine has it's own (and usually quite strong) personality... Do I make sense? For me it's very strong, like they are pure personality (since they don't have physical bodies, etc), which makes me think as odd that DC might have to develop one.


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