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Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?

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Perpetual Lucidity
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Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?
PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Let me preface this by stating that I am a Christian and I believe Jesus Christ to be God the Father made flesh.

Now....

We know Jesus slept. And due to the human mind's built-in processes, he had to also experience REM sleep for part of each sleep period.

I find the idea of Jesus's dreams to be quite intriguing. God became flesh and experienced the entire range of human experience, and I believe that includes dreams.

However, that doesn't mean that he experienced them in the same way as most of us dream (most of us not on this forum anyway ).

Dreams have obvious importance throughout scripture, so it is curious that nothing is really revealed to us about the content of Jesus's dreams, or the way in which he dreamed.

Obviously, with the gospel being delivered as 2nd hand accounts, and although believed to be the word of God, the authors didn't have access to that part of Jesus's human experience unless he explicitly told them about it. And from the snapshots of his life that did get recorded, there is not much to go on.

So I am wondering if Jesus used his REM periods of sleep to directly commune with the Father. Certainly, in prayer, he had this ability, but it was more meditative, while still being aware of his surroundings. But in his dreams, he no longer had to bother with the external distractions of sensory inupt. Instead, he had open to him the full virtual senses that the brain creates as part of the virtual environment of our dreamworld.

This, to me, creates an incredible potential.

I believe Jesus would have had the self-awareness to become fully conscious in his dreams about his purpose and his true reality, and not bumble along as part of some convoluted plot as most of us do each night when we dream. I believe He was still in control. And along with that control came the ability to choose what happened in his dreamworld.

What are the implications of these kinds of thoughts for other lucid dreamers who believe in Jesus?

<mod>Moved from Lucdi Adventures</mod>


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littlenemo
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

no offense, but as a fellow Christian this is like asking, "Did Jesus enjoy gardening?" it's really meaningless in the long run.

so to answer your question, there are none.


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MovieMe
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Re: Was Jesus a Lucid Dreamer?
PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Perpetual Lucidity wrote:
Let me preface this by stating that I am a Christian and I believe Jesus Christ to be God the Father made flesh.

Perpetual Lucidity wrote:
So I am wondering if Jesus used his REM periods of sleep to directly commune with the Father.

Did he commune with himself? He might very well have. Though as Littlenemo said, it's a pretty meaningless question to be asking.


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Don Anonymus
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Now how should we know if Jesus had LD's or not ? He was a human, and still not an ordinary human. So he must have had dreams. Or perhaps during the sleeping process something else occured for him. We don't know and it is allmost impossible to find out. The Bible says a lot about dreaming, that's true. But I think I read in the ld4all guide that untill 1970' or so, people didn't belive that you can controll your dreams. Or maybe some people knew but didn't want to tell ?

My conclusion is: How in the world could we know if Jesus had LD's or not ?? overspannen


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MovieMe
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Don Anonymus wrote:
We don't know and it is allmost impossible to find out.

It is very much impossible to find out wink


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Perpetual Lucidity
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Wow..I kind of hoped for a discussion given the open minds I've encountered on these forums before, but apparently the only replies are negative and aim to kill the topic rather than offer anything else.

Yes, there is no way to know for sure. And sure, it doesn't matter in the slightest if Jesus had lucid dreams or not. I just figured if he had dreams, they were probably lucid given the control over waking reality that he displayed.

I thought this idea may have been work tossing back and forth, since He was the only human that displayed dream-like control over real reality.
But I digress...


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Don Anonymus
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Hey, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'm not trying to "kill" the topic, just that there is no clue about Hi's dreams... It very interesting to know if "God" has LD's or not. But still, it's not something for us to find out. I think this is getting too deep into spirituality... The human brain is amazing, indeed. But still there are some things that it can't and simply CAN'T understand, and we need to understand that wink5

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MovieMe
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010  Reply with quote

Though I did indeed try to "kill" the topic. There is no meaning in discussing a topic like this. You can go "Since Jesus could control things when awake, he must have been able to do so in his dreams as well", and I'll go "Ok." - OR I go "I think he had normal dreams like any other person", and then you'll try to convince me what you think is true (It's what Christians do best) with "What I'm saying makes more sense", and then I'll go "Ok." - End of discussion. There are no arguments one could possibly make, and therefor no discussion is possible.

Perpetual Lucidity wrote:
Wow..I kind of hoped for a discussion given the open minds I've encountered on these forums before

This has nothing to do with open minds smile The rest of us has simply seen enough threads to know which ones wont lead anywhere.
I like the observation though - It's indeed a fun thought to play with.


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Perpetual Lucidity
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

That's a bit more of what I was expecting. And you are right. There isn't any space to have a good old-fashioned debate about this topic. But that doesn't mean it still couldn't be explored or hypothosized about. It doesn't have to go anywhere. I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. I certainly am not trying to convince anyone of anything, nor make you believe any way in particular. I only stated my beliefs to give a reference point to my thoughts on the topic. It seemed more relevant if you knew up front I believe Jesus is also God.

I see plenty of ridiculous topics on any number of way-far out there subjects, but I wouldn't consider any of them meaningless. Not just because it was significant enough to somebody to think about and then post about, but because the very act of reflection gives a topic at least a hint of meaning to that individual.

Thanks for the responses anyway, even if it was to this dead-end topic


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Andreyasn
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I've been thinking way too much about this, and here's the way I see it. Dreaming, he would have no contact with the world. I can't think of anything he could do from a dream consistent with his powers as shown in the Gospels. There would also be far more temptations in a dream. With no social constraints, it would be very easy to give into fantasies of lust or aggression. And since he said that lusting after a woman is as bad as committing adultery....

So I just see it as significant risk for unsubstantial gain. He probably wouldn't have taken advantage of this, though he easily could have.


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Perpetual Lucidity
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

"With no social constraints, it would be very easy to give into fantasies of lust or aggression"

That is one of the main things I have been struggling with regarding this issue! Jesus lived his waking life without sin, but does that also include his dream life? Or for that matter, are we capable of sin while we are dreaming? I know I have done plenty of sinful things while having normal dreams, but I didn't control myself in those situations and was basically along for the ride. Would that still be considered sin?

But in fully lucid dreams where I chose to live out a fantasy.....? I can imagine Jesus resisting this temptation, but it isn't easy for the rest of us.


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Don Anonymus
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

It's getting slightly interesting ^^ . I think, that in an LD, you are capable to sin. And you are capable to sin even worse than IRL. Why do I think this ? Because IRL things happen and you mostly can't do anything about it. In a LD you are the one "who makes rules", and you can have some "Rules" very sinfull. But what you do isn't real, so I'm not sure about it anyways, I didn't experience this in a LD yet... But if you do bad things in a ND it's deffinetly not a sin, because you can't do anything about it.
When I'm in a LD, I feel like "Be very carefull what you do !". I established some goals for myself in case I have an LD. The very first goal is to... meet someone I allways wanted to meet. I also wish to be in a small but luxury town and have adventures there... that's not a sin. I suggest to everyone to arange some goals in case they have an LD to be sure what they want to do..

Sorry for the long post shy2


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Andreyasn
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

Don Anonymus wrote:
But if you do bad things in a ND it's deffinetly not a sin, because you can't do anything about it.

This is not always true. In one ND I had, I had perfect control of my logical faculties and chose to murder two girls anyway. One could certainly argue that my actions were justified, but it is a sin nevertheless. Even if you do think killing would be okay in that situation, the point is that my reasoning was unimpaired and that I could certainly do something about it, so sinning is certainly possible even if it wasn't the case in that particular situation.


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morepurple
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I think he was a clever guy that was high as a kite.

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Vampirism45
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul, 2010  Reply with quote

I don't believe that Jesus was a Lucid Dreamer, because if he had Lucid Dreams, he would no doubt communicate with God. (Jesus himself is not God, but the son of God) If he actually did this, he would have told other people about those dreams, since back then, a lot of importance was placed on dreams, especially those sent by the "Most High". If you look through the Old Testament, you will find that all the Lucid Dreams the prophets had were written there, since they no doubt told everyone around them about those dreams.


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