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Time is slowed in the dream world. Can it be multiplied?

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Crazydrummer667
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Time is slowed in the dream world. Can it be multiplied?
PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Hi everyone smile

I'm aware real time is considerably slowed while LD'ing, but if you dream within a dream (and so on) will time be slowed even more? If so, it could open a world of possibilities, such as practicing things for days on end, studying and im sure you guys could come up with other uses.

Anyway, ty for your time, and im looking foward to reading your responses.



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Jay12341235
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

You've been watching too much inception wink

That movie is not based upon what LDing really is


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Well, Jay, it is really true ^^ time in dreams can be largely stretched, there's reports of several people that had their LD last for days or weeks. and Writerscube here on this forum had a 2-week-long dream at least, and yes, he lived every hour of it.
Be sure to check his DJ to see where he describes his technique ^^



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Ninja
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Yes, its very possible to have long LDs. I found that there was a guy who claimed to have a 100 year long LD (not on these forums)

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InsaneKid
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Actually time is roughly the same in an LD as in real life. Was it LaBerge (spelling?) who did the study? However, you can have "false memories" (happened to me once, where I re-lived an entire life up to my current age, but in a different world) where you remember things "from the past" that never actually happened. As a result, yeah it felt like I lived a whole new life, but when I think back, I can (and only ever could) recall key moments of the life in the past, enough to make it believable.

Sort of when you are on the verge of lucidity, and you are plopped in the middle of a dream and you start thinking, "Wait, why am I here, what was I doing?" when in reality, you weren't doing anything, but then you will 'remember', "Oh yeah, my friend called and I was supposed to meet them at the coffee shop! Shoot I am late!" Thus a false memory.

Soo.... yeah, cool idea, but not really possible in that aspect. Sure though, you could study in a dream or something. Dnow how helpful that would be (but heck it is a few hours more than without) and dreams are certainly a playground for creating art, whether it be a picture, music, or merely an idea that you can carry into the world when you wake up. (Helped me write a boogie-woogie piece once for the piano, actually. Never would have come up with many of the runs and the bass line without the dream)


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Xzontar wrote:
Actually time is roughly the same in an LD as in real life. Was it LaBerge (spelling?) who did the study? However, you can have "false memories" (happened to me once, where I re-lived an entire life up to my current age, but in a different world) where you remember things "from the past" that never actually happened. As a result, yeah it felt like I lived a whole new life, but when I think back, I can (and only ever could) recall key moments of the life in the past, enough to make it believable.

I'm sorry, but LaBerge was wrong in this regard. Many people experience the kind of phenomena you described, true, and it probably it is the main reason it is believed time can stretch in dreams, also possible, but from here to saying real time-stretch is completely impossible, now that's a gap he's not allowed to cross.
I've seen it done, I've been myself in a dream that lasted 1+ hours while I woke just 10 minutes after, and I could just list the sheer amount of events that happened to convince you that it had to be more.

Besides, it's not that hard to believe in. Time is very relative, and it's just about living events at a faster pace, it's just about your mind processing events and reactions a little faster. I don't see the problem with that, since I still don't see anyone that dared putting some limits to the possibilities of the human mind.



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Crazydrummer667
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Thanks for the answers, I was wondering the exact conversion for real time to dream time (if any is calculable)

And I'm not exactly sure how one could event tell how much time has gone by in a dream (clocks always seem to be spinning really fast in mine)



Current LD goal(s): Maintain stability, Try to not forget all i've learned upon entering the drean
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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

Well, if you want a real answer, just check Writerscube's DJ, he's the only one I know who can pull off a dream time stretching consistently and with precision he talks about his dream clock at one point. He said he hasn't tried yet testing the limits of his dream clock, but I reckon he could easily fit two months of dream time in a single night if he wanted (and he doesn't because he would miss reality by then lach1)


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InsaneKid
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Oct, 2010  Reply with quote

tosxyChor wrote:

I'm sorry, but LaBerge was wrong in this regard. Many people experience the kind of phenomena you described, true, and it probably it is the main reason it is believed time can stretch in dreams, also possible, but from here to saying real time-stretch is completely impossible, now that's a gap he's not allowed to cross.
I've seen it done, I've been myself in a dream that lasted 1+ hours while I woke just 10 minutes after, and I could just list the sheer amount of events that happened to convince you that it had to be more.

Besides, it's not that hard to believe in. Time is very relative, and it's just about living events at a faster pace, it's just about your mind processing events and reactions a little faster. I don't see the problem with that, since I still don't see anyone that dared putting some limits to the possibilities of the human mind.


Never said it was impossible, I merely stated that time was roughly the same in the dream world. All I remember of the study (I read it a long time ago, haven't been very active on LD research as of late) is that they had a person sleeping, and he/she would count in the dream and give signals after a specified amount of time. Not to say dream time can't last longer per-say, I mean sure your brain may be working faster, or whatnot, there are possibilities and little is really known about dreaming. However, I think to say a dream could last, say, 100 years, or heck even a full year is stretching it a bit too far, we do have limits, declared or not. (Even if the brain works at it's fastest pace, there is still a limit to how fast signals can be transferred etc.)

Either way, discrediting research done by one of the leading dream researchers because of mere opinion seems a little rash. Not to say LaBerge's test results would apply 100% of the time, but at least he has solid evidence.

P.S. Hm, re-reading through this, comes off a little harsh. Not trying to be a jerk. grin


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FabledHero
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PostPosted: Mon 01 Nov, 2010  Reply with quote

Yeah in my experience dreams that feel like they last forever are due to your point of references. For example if in your dream you were living in a certain world let's say you met a girl, and throughout the dream eventually you had a kid for example. Your mind will interpret it as if a long time has passed, you had a kid after all. But that could happen in a minute in real time.

Real life there are perceived time distortions as well. For example when you enter a state of flow, time will go very very fast. You have no point of references, you're really absorbed and focused on what you're doing. Let's say you have to stare at a wall for an hour, it'll feel as if you've been staring at it for days possibly a week.


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Queen SD
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010  Reply with quote

The whole "dream within a dream" theory is wrong, it's only one dream you're in, it simply feels different because your mind tells you you had a false awakening. If that made any sense.

As for time, it is possible to "slow time down" in the dreamworld, but it isn't easy and it doesn't always work. Time is a relative thing... You can try manipulating it though through memories.


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tosxyChor
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010  Reply with quote

Xzontar wrote:
Never said it was impossible, I merely stated that time was roughly the same in the dream world. All I remember of the study (I read it a long time ago, haven't been very active on LD research as of late) is that they had a person sleeping, and he/she would count in the dream and give signals after a specified amount of time. Not to say dream time can't last longer per-say, I mean sure your brain may be working faster, or whatnot, there are possibilities and little is really known about dreaming. However, I think to say a dream could last, say, 100 years, or heck even a full year is stretching it a bit too far, we do have limits, declared or not. (Even if the brain works at it's fastest pace, there is still a limit to how fast signals can be transferred etc.)

Either way, discrediting research done by one of the leading dream researchers because of mere opinion seems a little rash. Not to say LaBerge's test results would apply 100% of the time, but at least he has solid evidence.

P.S. Hm, re-reading through this, comes off a little harsh. Not trying to be a jerk. grin

Ah, dang, I didn't notice I my reply to this got lost before sending it. =\ Alright, I'll write it again.
I wasn't discrediting LaBerge either, it's just that too many people read that part and come to the conclusion that stretching time in dreams must be impossible, while LaBerge showed something completely different, and merely hypothesized a working because of which many people report having dreams lasting several hours, days or such.
I recognize my words towards LaBerge were misdirected, and I apologize for that. smile



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Gutana
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010  Reply with quote

Only time I've ever tried slowing down time, it made the dream world actually go in slow motion, and I was perfectly normal. Which wasn't exactly what I was aiming for XD

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Kairos
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PostPosted: Sun 23 Jan, 2011  Reply with quote

Concerning this subject I just realize that people discuss 2 different things as one.

Objective time scale and subjective time scale...
objective time is absolute time that is counted on your watch. Subjective time is the time pace as you perceive it. (Stephen Laberge's experiment do not deny the time stretch possibility it is an attempt to evaluate accordance between those 2 time scales in specific cases.)

In a simpler way, just think about how time seems longer when you are doing something boring and shorter when you are having fun. All in all, 15 minutes is 15 minutes.

It is also scientifically reported that extreme condition in waking life can cause subjective time to stretch (example falling). Accelerating the thinking process by ten, causing the subjective time to slow down related to usual time perception.

More importantly in addition to those RL phenomenon i would add that in dream state the whole time perception could be even more bended due to the dream universe complete subjectivity.

So i state that objective time is absolut and cannot change its pace. Subjective time, on the contrary, can stretch due to various psychological processes (ND, LD, WL). I have my own opinion but i stay open to others point of views. In order to better understand each other, please, state clearly which kind of time you are taling about.



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Faraday
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PostPosted: Sun 23 Jan, 2011  Reply with quote

I do agree with Kairos, it's a matter of subjective time, so in a way ,you can get a 1 week LD, but it's still 9 hours of sleep, it's subjectivity that count when you are dreaming.

I guess...i mean , i think...



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