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Posts: 14
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| My quest for lucidity,expirienced LD-ers, please help :) |
 Posted: Fri 13 Apr, 2012 |
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I'm new here,and i supose you could help me 
I lie in bed,and count my breath,sometimes even for 15 minutes,and nothing happens:
How long do i have to wait for sleep paralysis and for the hipnagogic images to start showing up?
Please reply
Thanks.
Last edited by markinho19 on Mon 23 Apr, 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri 13 Apr, 2012 |
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I guess you are trying WILD. If you didn't know, don't perform WILD when first going to sleep, do it during a nap or after WBTB. Otherwise it will take you ages to sleep. How long it takes for the HH and SP to appear is individual. Remember that experiencing these sensations is not necessary to perform WILD, you may have them but it's well possible that you don't notice them (or that they happen so fast that you don't) and go straight into a dream.
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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Posts: 14
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Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Fri 13 Apr, 2012 |
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Hmmmm,yes,i was trying it when i went to sleep,like 10 P.M...i can't usually allow myself to be awake at night,because of school,but it's friday so i can afford to do it.
I'll try WILD after WBTB.
I can also take a nap like only after 3 P.M,is that good? I also get home tired so don't know if that's a problem...
I also read that when you wake up for wbtb it's good to listen to music or something that relaxes you,and read about LD.
Thanks for the reply.
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18 |
Posts: 141
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Last Visit: 17 Jun 2012
LD count: 10
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat 14 Apr, 2012 |
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| markinho19 wrote: |
Hmmmm,yes,i was trying it when i went to sleep,like 10 P.M...i can't usually allow myself to be awake at night,because of school,but it's friday so i can afford to do it.
I'll try WILD after WBTB.
I can also take a nap like only after 3 P.M,is that good? I also get home tired so don't know if that's a problem...
I also read that when you wake up for wbtb it's good to listen to music or something that relaxes you,and read about LD.
Thanks for the reply. |
The reason you don't get SP, HI, and can't WILD is because they happen at the REM stages, which don't happen at all at the beginning of the night (Unless you're extremely exhausted). You go straight into deep sleep, for 90 minutes. Then your first REM period happens, which is only 5 minutes. The longest REM periods are after ~5 hours of sleep, where they become up to 1 hour long, or more.
Be more familiar with your REM cycles. It should work before naps, since they are almost entirely made of REM sleep.
Do you ever get random images/thoughts before you sleep during a nap? Remember that you don't see these on your eyelids; they are more like thoughts projected. It's like vivid daydreaming.
Also, be prepared and be motivated. Once you realize you got to a certain stage, you should be able to remember what to do. If you are getting a steady stream of HI/HH, concentrate on them, relax, but don't interfere or else you'll get pulled into a normal dream. Instead, just remind yourself that it's a dream. If you do fall into SP though, make sure you know what to do. There's a good chance you'll be trying to get out of your body, but failing at it. Try floating out of your body, or sinking through it. The main idea is to separate your dream body from your real body. This is called an OBE, but it's basically the same thing as a lucid dream. Don't convince yourself that you're actually having an out of body experience! You will lose control.
Current LD goal(s): Have an adventure, have a conversation with DCs
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18 |
Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat 14 Apr, 2012 |
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| markinho19 wrote: |
Hmmmm,yes,i was trying it when i went to sleep,like 10 P.M...i can't usually allow myself to be awake at night,because of school,but it's friday so i can afford to do it.
I'll try WILD after WBTB.
I can also take a nap like only after 3 P.M,is that good? I also get home tired so don't know if that's a problem...
I also read that when you wake up for wbtb it's good to listen to music or something that relaxes you,and read about LD. |
I don't have experience with afternoon naps, but it's worth a try. I don't know how much you sleep and how many hours of sleep you need, but for me seven hours of sleep including a ~15 minutes long WBTB are enough, and WBTB never messed up my sleeping patterns or made me more tired in the morning.
I've read somewhere that being tired is not optimal when trying WILD as you may just "pass out" and normally fall asleep, but I'm not sure about this. Maybe some experienced WILDer can give you more advice.
What you do during your WBTB is up to you, the point is to awake your mind but to leave the body as relaxed as possible. Reading about LDing is definitely a good choice.
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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Posts: 14
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2012 |
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| Leijona wrote: |
| markinho19 wrote: |
Hmmmm,yes,i was trying it when i went to sleep,like 10 P.M...i can't usually allow myself to be awake at night,because of school,but it's friday so i can afford to do it.
I'll try WILD after WBTB.
I can also take a nap like only after 3 P.M,is that good? I also get home tired so don't know if that's a problem...
I also read that when you wake up for wbtb it's good to listen to music or something that relaxes you,and read about LD. |
I don't have experience with afternoon naps, but it's worth a try. I don't know how much you sleep and how many hours of sleep you need, but for me seven hours of sleep including a ~15 minutes long WBTB are enough, and WBTB never messed up my sleeping patterns or made me more tired in the morning.
I've read somewhere that being tired is not optimal when trying WILD as you may just "pass out" and normally fall asleep, but I'm not sure about this. Maybe some experienced WILDer can give you more advice.
What you do during your WBTB is up to you, the point is to awake your mind but to leave the body as relaxed as possible. Reading about LDing is definitely a good choice. |
I usually sleep 7 or 8 hours,it's just that sometimes i feel exhuasted when i wake up,and i also read that LD's can help you feel better in your real life,so that would definetly be good for me.
15 min you say?Most of the sites say 1h,or at least 30 min...
I didn't have the time to try with naps,since i started doing this like before 2 weeks,and with school i can't afford to nap.
Well i don't do anything,i just go to the bathroom,wash my face so i get really wake,and then read something or listen to music.
Is it good if i lie down and read and listen to music,or do i have to do it standing up or sitting?
Thanks
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18 |
Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon 16 Apr, 2012 |
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It's your choice how long you make your WBTB, you just need to awake your mind. Experiment with different times, first choose a shorter amount of time and when you feel that it's not enough you can make your WBTB longer until you've found the optimal time. With some experience you will develop a sense for when you have to stay awake a bit longer and when you should go back to sleep.
I personally avoid too much movement during my WBTB as it tends to wake me up totally. So once again, it's a personal thing. 
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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Posts: 14
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Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 |
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Ok,so i go to bed at 10,and wake up at 4. i stay up for half an hour or more,but i can't get to sleep again.
I usually wake up at 6,and today i was like,half asleep half awake untill 5 minutes before 6.My alarm usually rings at 6,but i moved it to 6:20 so i could sleep some more.
Any tips on that?
Do i get too much awake?
In those 30 minutes i read a book in bed on my phone on lucid dreaming that i downloaded from the net.
I also went to the bathroom,nothing more.
Also,when i went back to bed after WBTB i was thinking about what i wanted to dream,and i was thinking about a girl i like,and how we were talking.
And after i fell asleep for those 25 minutes at 6 a.m. i dreamt about her,being in my room with 2 other girls.
Glad to know that works.
Thanks
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Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Last Visit: 02 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 |
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Markinho: I have the same problem!
Current LD goal(s): To have a lucid dream.
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Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 |
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So you actually meet with some success using autosuggestion, congrats! Either you were too awake or have slept too long to go back to sleep quickly. There are two things you can try out: 1.) Doing WBTB after 4.5 hours of sleep or 2.) shortening your WBTB.
Good luck!
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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Posts: 14
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 |
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Ok,thanks,i'll try it with 4,5 hours,since this is close to my waking time.
All the web sites tell me to do it after 6 hours so that's what i did.
What about doing both of them?
I don't want to wake up at 2:30 and not sleep till 6.
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Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 |
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The sience behind WBTB is that REM occurs in cycles of 90 minutes, so you can try it after multiples of 1.5 hours. The ones usually used are 4.5 and 6 hours. I personally wouldn't try both during the same night...I think this would disturb your sleep too much. What you can do though is waking yourself up after your REM cycle with a mantra like "I will wake up after each dream" (worked perfectly for me when I first started to build up my DR) so when you wake up this way, you don't interrupt your sleep but wake up naturally and gently. When using an alarm, be sure to include the time you usually need to fall asleep, e.g. I need about 30 minutes until I fall asleep, so I set the alarm 5 hours ahead of the time I go to bed. If you are worried about not being able to sleep again, then start with a short WBTB time, like 10 minutes (or maybe even shorter, depends on the person), and go back to sleep. This way you have a big chance of being able to sleep again, and if you notice that the chosen amount of time was too short, you can always stay awake longer the next night.
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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Posts: 4121
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Last Visit: 17 Jun 2013
LD count: lost
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| Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 |
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If after WBTB you can't fall asleep, next time decrease the time you stay up.
If after WBTB you fall asleep too quickly, next time increase the time you stay up.
until you find something in between
Current LD goal(s): meditate
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Posts: 14
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Last Visit: 03 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Sun 22 Apr, 2012 |
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Ok,I've tried it with 10,15,20,30 and 60 minutes till now.
And none of it worked.
Is it something i do wrong?
I get up,go to the bathroom,get back to bed,and visit forums or sites about lucid dreaming for the amount of time i said.Then i go to sleep,imagining what i would like to dream about.
How many tries does it need?
I write down like 2 dreams each night,my recall isn't bad.
Maybe i do lucid dream but can't remember it in the morning at all?
Please help 
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Posts: 419
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
LD count: 80
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun 22 Apr, 2012 |
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Right now you confused me.  So what exactly do you want to do? Do you want to incubate a specific ND or achieve a LD? If you want to have a LD, you may try different techniques and see what works for you.
It's not very likely that you have LD's but don't remember them at all in the morning. Of course it's possible, but doesn't happen very often. To eliminate this possibilty, work more on your dream recall. Depending on how much you sleep, you have about four or five dreams a night, so there is much more to recall than two dreams.
Don't lose patience, don't stress yourself if you don't get what you wanted on the first few tries. Dreaming is a psychological thing and is influenced/produced by your SC. If you want to dream about a specific thing, this may need some time to "sink in", for some it needs just a day, for some weeks or even months. Take your time with dreaming, whether lucid or not, and do everything you try out (new tech, new mantra, new WBTB time) for at least a few days before moving on to something else. Keep track especially of your successes and think positive about what you already achieved, even if it seems small and worthless.
Current LD goal(s): visit a "ghost town"
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