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They're Not Dreams

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Cornelia Xaos
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They're Not Dreams
PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

After reading a lot of WritersCube's DJ and seeing his responses to the numerous questions about his level of lucidity, I've come up with a theory as to why he has lucid dreams every night. First, I would like to analyze one of his metaphors:

WritersCube wrote:
It's like walking through a door. First your awake, then you pass through the door, and then your dreaming.


What does this tell us? He does not see dreaming in the same light as we do.

You all wrote:
Duh! He's got a different mindset!


Exactly! He has a different mindset. To him, dreams are not what our definition of dreams are:
Dictionary.com wrote:
dream   [dreem] noun
1. a succession of images, thoughts, or emotions passing through the mind during sleep.


To us, dreams are a series of images. Magical things that astound us and things that we have to work to gain a foothold in. To WritersCube, he spends about 16 hours in a reality in which he is limited, and then he lays down and goes to sleep to enter another reality. This is why he has such frequent LDs. He does not see dreams as we do. He's been LDing since he was 4!

And that brings me to my second argument, an addendum to the theory. His belief and definition of dreams was established primarily before any other definition gained root. We, however, have had years to build into our mind that our dreams are those magical perceptions that we have no control over. This belief we held until doubt seeped in as we discovered LDing and LD4all. For Cube his primary definition of dreams as an interactive reality, not a figment of his mind, but a living breathing evolving reality that is every bit as real as the air we breath when we're not comatose and hallucinating, and this brings me to my solution.

They're not dreams. Believe every bit of that three word sentence. If you're not comfortable moving away from the word dreams, rewrite your definition of dreams. An easy way to do that is to state what your mind currently believes a dream is and then state, preferably out loud and written down, what dreams should be: an alternate reality. This is a simple manipulation of how Psychology believes memory works. For a linky, click here.

Near the bottom it says the three steps in memory are encoding, storage, and retrieval. From my studies in Psychology, this is correct, but what the web page fails to say that the book said to me is that after retrieval the process begins again. Therefore you can re-encode a memory and alter anything, say a definition. Say the definition dreams. This is our goal.

Our goal: eliminate a false perspective of what a dream is. It is not something we can't control. It is not something we can't control. It Is Not Something We Can't Control. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN'T CONTROL! Say it with me, people. We can control dreams. They are our domain. It is a reality that we interact with. A place for personal expansion and inspiration. A natural phenomenon that takes place solely in our mind; a disconnection of our body from our consciousness, and while our body becomes paralyzed our minds are freed. Dreams are wonderful, our thoughts alive and constructing a wonderful reality, a wonderful world for our personal enjoyment.

EDIT: Part 2 Located here.

To all reading, I adopted this belief yesterday. I'll be sure to key everyone in when the successes start piling in. grin



Current LD goal(s): To Actually LD Regularly Again... Jeez...


Last edited by Cornelia Xaos on Sat 27 Aug, 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Samadhi
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

But if we eliminate the perspective that "dreams aren't something we can't control" wouldn't this only help with stability issues?

At least the essence of what you wrote about WritersCube beliefs about dreams seems a tad different to me.

I know what you mean, but right now I'm just too tired to think thoroughly through this belief. Nonetheless, it could be helpful.

But then again, I'm really unexperienced in these LD things - I hope my post was at least a little helpful nonetheless.


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Rhewin
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

Well, I think what Scipio is trying to point out is that we have basically trained ourselves to view dreams as things that just happen outside of our control without our consciousness backing them up. We see them as something we have to actually try to become conscious in since our experience shows that they are meant to not be in our control.

However, by looking at them from the mindset of them being just another plane of conscious existence, it makes no sense why we wouldn't be able to take control of.

I will admit I am breaking my number one pet peeve here with wording. When I say control, I mean consciousness. It's like taking control of a car or a boat. This kind of control stems from awareness which is what lucidity actually means. The control you are thinking of is more of your ability to do things in the dream world. A little bit different, and that's another topic all together XD.



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2ndLive
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

While children in most cultures are taught to ignore their dreams, the Senoi, like the aborigines of Australia, believe dreams are a landscape one must learn and navigate to truly understand the nature of life. During an average lifespan we spend 8 years of our life dreaming. Imagine living 8 years in a foreign country and never picking up the customs, language, or even the layout of the land; having only theories and little experience.
http://grasshopperx.com/dreams/senoi-dreamers/


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Cornelia Xaos
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

Samahdi, other than Cube, the theory is untested. And as for what I said about control, I was merely using it as an example. Control is only one aspect of our dreams that we perceive differetly than WritersCube. After I laid down to sleep last night I realized that I should have used a different word or elaborated more.

Rhewin, exactly! That's precisely why I believe some frequent LDers are so and most aspiring LDers have such difficulty (myself included).

2ndLive, thanks for the supportive evidence. Interesting read.



Current LD goal(s): To Actually LD Regularly Again... Jeez...
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Samadhi
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

Scipio Xaos wrote:
After I laid down to sleep last night I realized that I should have used a different word or elaborated more.


Exactly that's what I meant. smile But there's always time for refining this theory, I'm almost sure it will be quite helpful.

EDIT: After re-reading this thread it seems to me that my initial post sounded like I thought that this wasn't a good approach. I definitely think it is one, I just wanted to point out the (imo) not so good wording.

EDIT2: I hope I'm not babbling useless stuff here, as I said I didn't have any LDs yet. If I should stay out of this discussion and wait until I'm more experienced, just tell me. grin


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avalinah
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

i've always viewed dreams as another reality. well, not always, but since my childhood definitely. the years when i had my best DR were the years when i "moved to" the dreamworld, because at that time it was better than the real one. however, i have never had a LD before i found out about them, which was last year.

so your theory has a hole in it. i'm not saying it's not true, but i'm saying it's still missing some key difference between only just thinking it's another reality (which i did believe in when i was small) and actually becoming lucid..

i think what it is is that people are different. different kinds and levels of awareness and even the way the brain's working. there are just too many variables, so it's hard to say that "this" is exactly what makes one lucid and can make everyone lucid.



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Cornelia Xaos
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

Part 1 Located here.

I've come to another conclusion as to how to use this information in the formation of a "technique" if you will as it is very much like LL. First off:

Wyvern wrote:
The real "Lucid Living" shift came when it occurred to me that anything could be a dream sign. The couch I was sitting on. It felt real, but it also felt real in a dream. The ground I was standing on, the air I was breathing, the emotions I was very much aware of. I could be dreaming. And then suddenly, it just all felt like a dream. There's a certain state of mind that comes with questioning. This sense of lucidity and awareness. It never turned off after that. Life still feels like a dream. I'm lucid right now.


What is unique about Wyvern's mindset and the mindset that WritersCube carries? They're certainty and levels of awareness are superb compared to the average dreamer. So, what I propose, is in place of a LL critical question (although such a question will assist in this process) is an attempt to fixate into our lives a permanent state of awareness.

Complete Awareness (I've just discovered that it's also referred to as All Day Awareness (ADA) although ADA seems to focus more intently upon dreaming), aside from the benefits such a level of awareness would naturally incur upon our waking lives, would easily yield DILDs every time you sleep. Wyv said he's unable to normal dream - although I believe that at that point a normal dream is a lucid one - because of his level of awareness and his feeling that 'all is like a dream.'

Thoughts like those tend to bring upon a person immense feelings of awareness. A similar process I've discovered is visualizing oneself from third person with dramatically stronger effects the further away one visualizes oneself. Anything, really, that can induce a similar feeling as to be acutely aware of your surroundings and hence you waking/dreaming state will be infinitely profitable to a dreamer's LD experience and frequency.

In closing, it seems to me that awareness being central, dreamers who wish for persistent and constant Lucid Dreaming to become they're NDs should pay less attention to shortcut techniques that only provide lapses into the world of dreams and more attention to what can easily produce results immediately as they did for Wyvern once he realized that his environment at any time could be a dream.



Current LD goal(s): To Actually LD Regularly Again... Jeez...
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gnargnar
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

Great article, I'm trying it out atm (3rd person). I still haven't tried to rewrite my definition of what a dream is but I'm gonna try it tonight. It would be nice if you gave examples of yourself and shown the journey that you took to develop this mindset. Also I'm wondering what your definition of a dream is before getting this mindset and right now (anyone should feel free to answer that )


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Laretta
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

I can't separate dream objects from RL objects because they feel and look exactly the same. If I would ask everything's real or not my friends could think that I've gone crazy...


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Cornelia Xaos
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011  Reply with quote

GnarGnar wrote:
It would be nice if you gave examples of yourself and shown the journey that you took to develop this mindset. Also I'm wondering what your definition of a dream is before getting this mindset and right now (anyone should feel free to answer that )


Thanks for the compliment Gnar, and as for examples of the journey, I'm in the middle of it now. But I can tell you that I've done all I said (although I haven't done exactly as I said for rewriting my definition of dreams, instead I've been reinforcing my belief that I'm not powerless in my dreams), and that I've begun considering the world the way Wyvern does, that it all could be a dream. So far, I'm not constantly questioning my state, although I most certainly am questioning it a lot more than I used to. The frequency of said questions has been increasing steadily.

Laretta wrote:
I can't separate dream objects from RL objects because they feel and look exactly the same.

Exactly, that's why I've adopted Wvyern's consistent consideration of perceiving the world as it could be a dream.

Laretta wrote:
If I would ask everything's real or not my friends could think that I've gone crazy...

You don't have to ask it out loud. Silent consideration to oneself is almost certainly enough. I've noticed that it's infinitely easy to perceive a dream as a dream so long as one asks themselves they are dreaming. The opposite is true if one assumes it is not. Therefore, by questioning all the time, you are infinitely more likely to realize you are dreaming, even by assuming that all is a dream. Remember: Optimism is key!!!



Current LD goal(s): To Actually LD Regularly Again... Jeez...
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Mr Ribeiro
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Nov, 2017  Reply with quote

Thanks Cornelia

Nice Post

In a book called " Friendship with God " NDW there's a wonderful line

Basically waking life, physical reality, whatever you may want to this shared reality in which i am liking this post IS is " a dream of a lifetime " as opposed to " a dream of a nighttime " or " a nap time " either way the point is waking up, wouldn't you say?


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