Aborting

Hmmm, that sounds like the complete opposite of Dreamaddicts nightmare experiences.

Anyway. Against all positive experiences I have only heard once before from a person who got nightmares while trying to get lucid. (Not while being lucid)
This intrigues me. After all those positive experiences, maybe it would be good (for a completer vision of LDing) to hear some negative experiences.

Do you think your parents would be willing to share some of their experiences here?

I highly doubt it, but I could ask. But again, the chances of it are incredibly low.

I sent u a personal message…
Maybe i can help…

You say “parents” as in plural. I find it interesting that two people have had “less-than-safe” experiences. Like Hypnodude, I’m very interested in hearing peoples negative experiences. We always here about the “pros” and never the “cons.” Everything has both.

I can agree with Rossi saying “it’s messed up their sleep cycles.” Some techniques ask you to interupt your sleep cycle like the WBTB method and others. This is voluntary though. By saying “messed up” it sounds like they have problems sleeping. I never have problems going to sleep or staying asleep. I do have an erratic sleep schedule, but only because I’m unemployeed at the moment and I preoccupy myself with things. If I lay down to go to sleep it only takes minutes before I’m asleep soundly. I have juggled full-time school and full-time work while practicing LDs. Any interuptions of my sleep cycle have been purely voluntary. I think it is the fear of dreams that may interupt their sleep cycle, or anxiety, or problems on mind.

I find Rossi’s parents situation sad. I can imagine the real horror this must cause them. “they can’t wake up from it” seems as if they think that every night is a risk of becoming trapped. It is truely deeply saddening to see how the potential of their dreams have been robbed by their fears. This can start a downward spiral of nightmares that may be difficult to escape from. To be afraid before you even go to sleep, to fear you may dream, plants the nightmare in your head. It is called “dream incubation.”

I don’t think they are lying. If they lie to you by telling you that you’ll have nightmares, then they will indeed cause you nightmares. I think they are aware of that. I hope they have not planted that seed.

I hope someone here has advice for your parents. Dreams are a gift for all of us humans and should be cherished, not feared. They have much potential!

Take-care and sweet-dreams!!

I certainly meant no insults. I used the general her as people would use a general masculine form… instead of saying he/she or they. It wasn’t a declaration of gender rather it was brought on by seeing it in common use.

I also meant nothing by saying your parents may be religious. I have a few friends whos parents would be very concerned if their child was engaging in something such as lucid dreaming. Some religions just don’t allow for such things as lucid dreaming… they lump it in with witchcraft and demonism. I only meant to suggest that perhaps they may have some sort of objection against LDing and therefore told you not to continue with it. No offense there guy.

I find your parents story strange and fascinating. Have they sought help for the situation they are in or do they feel there is nowhere to turn?

Rossi: If your parents are that concerned about Lucid dreaming, I definetely think they should inform other people about the dangers of it… Please ask them, I am sure many people over here are more than interested in hearing their experiences.
For me, I am not sure wheather it is because I remember my dreams better now, or because I have started working on getting lucid dreams, but some of the dreams I recall are damn odd and freaky. In fact, that was kind of the reason why I stopped trying to get lucid dreams for a while, and stopped writing my dream diary…

Lostboy: I understand what your saying, and they dont even have to be religious, they just might be unaware of lucid dreaming, I was telling my dad about novadreamer when I found out he didnt even know what a lucid dream was… I explained to him that once you are aware of dreaming you can do anything, and my dad was like ‘haha, but thats not possible’ I read in a book by David Fontana that also Christian holy men have tried to achieve lucid dreams, some weird methods like whipping themselves…Indians used peyote cactus, some others used cannabis. I suppose many people are unaware of lucid dreaming, and after all, we still have quite little knowledge about it…
This is why I encourage Rossi to ask his parents to tell us their experiences.

Lucid dreaming dangerous ?

It certainly CAN mess up your sleep cycles but this is, like Dream Addict said, due to some techniques you can freely choose among a broad range of methods. In WBTB (a very succesful technique BTW) you stay up for an hour at night: of course this could cause some problems if you don’t go earlier to bed.

Another aspect of nightly experiments is the higher risk of experiencing sleep paralysis (SP) and the accompanying hypnagogic hallucinations . Especially if you experiment with stuff like astral projection (OBE’s) you can encounter this kind of creepy experiences. I’m almost sure this is the danger your parents are pointing to (please correct me if I’m wrong). However I think you should know there is no danger at all in sleep paralysis and the more you resist and fear it, the worse it gets. The hallucinations are completely illusionary and there is no need to fear an illusion. The more you consider it as a real and dangerous phenomenon, the more realistic and dangerous it gets. The more you resist the more it persists. The paralysis itself is a natural phenomenon, scary but without danger. To learn about sleep paralysis check out this link:
arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html

Another way in which we can cause unnecessary fear in ourselves is by believing in all those strange christian or New Age theories about the “dangers of astral projection”. You can encounter all kinds of “demonic forces” and you should be very careful because those demons are REAL, they say. Of course, if you see those forces as real (and many of these people claim that dreams are much more real than waking reality) then you will have much more fear and the whole mental construction becomes even more scary and real (just like sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations). Of course you are free to believe what you want but the consequence of this kind of beliefs is that you have to take dreams very serious, you have to be scared all the time because of all those dangerous creatures around you that can “possess” you. I prefer to just see them as mental constructions, nothing to fear. So demons don’t bother me, they are no demons but my own constructions and this realization makes those creatures powerless.

So maybe you could find out what are the beliefs of your parents about this and then you will be more able to compare with other information and make a decision for yourself. The human mind can be very powerful and create the most horrible “realities”. This can cause a lot of fear. Fear puts our life in a bottleneck because it makes us less free to explore the amazing reality around us. So if we notice fear in ourselves we better find out if that fear is based on real dangers or on illusions, don’t we? If you stand before a real lion, run. If you encounter a dream lion, smile .

Just my 2 cents, and I hope they help.

Hah, yeah. And marijuana is highly addictive and will lead to harder drugs.

Huh? What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Same here. but like I said in another post “the dreamscape is a powerful place where your ideas can take realistic form.” Any idea that you believe is true, can take form in your dreams.

I’ve also grown to see my dreams as “mental constructions,” though I’m actually trying to reverse that. I think that belief influences your dreamscape, and can create bland dream characters. I always tell my DC’s “you’re not real. you’re in my dream. you’re only a dream … etc.” and they always seem to turn emotionless and vacant. When I have a non-ld, and mistaken my surroundings as reality, I can recall long meaningful conversations with DC’s. Like my recent dream with Dolly Parton. I think if I could make myself believe that the dreamscape is a real place, then I will start to have more lucid lucid dreams. This doesn’t mean I have to adopt the “danger” or “possession” ideas.

It’s a catch-22 though. I’ve yet to have a dream to make me think it is a “real” reality, but if I did believe it was a “real” reality than the dreams will become more realistic.

I’m afraid it it impossible to fool yourself on purpose, if you really know it’s an illusion then it is just what it is. Besides that, one of the features of “reality” is that you cannot have the good without the bad, so if you would manage to have such a “real” unreal dream you will definitely encounter scary stuff and, since it is “real” for you, be afraid of it.

Maybe you should go to the source of the problem, what is it that makes those DC’s so “vacant” when you realize the illusion? Why should they change? “Vacant” and “emotionless” DC’s are as illusionary as DC’s full of emotion, why pick only one of them?

My guess is that they only reflect your state of mind, and since you associate “seeing them as illusion” with “becoming vacant and emotionless” that’s just what happens. The pitfalls are endless! It’s like not being able to fly in a dream, it is perfectly possible for everyone to fly in a dream but something subconscious blocks the possibility. If so, only realizing and letting go of the blockade will open up other possibilities. I’m sure it is possible to create every illusion you want, even emotional DC’s can be created without having to see them as “real” .

Why should realizing the illusion hinder you from living the illusion with enthousiasm? Suppose you discover right now everything you perceive including yourself is a sort of illusion (though a very persistent one, like good old Albert Einstein once said), why should you stop living this “illusionary” reality? It’s still the only reality you got right now, illusion or not. The apple you eat is still an apple with a specific taste, the beautiful girl is still a beatiful girl,… probably the only thing that would change is that you know it’s all in the mind, that it is all “you” whether it smiles or not, whether you can control it or not. Hmmm, maybe the key is to realize that “real” and “unreal” are just two sides of the same coin?

I will try to explain the problem how my parents explained it…They have Sleep Paralysis literally EVERY night, whenever they go to slepe they do not feel rested…and they said their dreams are very dark and twisted.

I’ve heard them sometimes moaning at night as if something was coming after them or something…It isn’t pleasent. They usually grit their teeth and produce some VERY odd sound (like two plastic trays maybe rubbing against each other) yet there is no plastic. I think that they think that evil forces have followed them and are haunting them through their dreams (I once had many nightmares and some healer guy said that someone was trying to hurt them through me. He did something and ever since, it quit).

Thats all they really said…

Yeah, demons. WRAAAA!

DreamAddict: What I meant with the marijuana post is that it’s a croak of deciet.

Look, most likely your parents didn’t achieve lucidity but instead indulged in something else that IS twisted, leading to nightmares that they don’t WANT to deal with, since nightmares are abolishable on your own. And remember, just because it happens to them, doesn’t mean it’ll happen to you.

So it is sleep paralysis?
Rossi, I would get as much information as possible from the web about sleep paralysis: what is it, is it dangerous, what can you do about it. There is plenty of information about it, click the link I gave you or do a search on Google… I think your parents would feel better when they read all this information that says SP is not dangerous at all, I hope so because you cannot beat this phenomenon with fear and resistance. I’m afraid most regular doctors don’t know Sleep Paralysis but in sleep clinics they will know more about it (I hope). It’s pretty sad, so many people suffer from this phenomenon, if they had more information about SP they wouldn’t be so scared.
Again the link:
arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html

I was not talking about fooling myself, but actually converting my belief. I wish I could believe that the dreamscape was more than my minds creation, It could help create more realistic LDs. The catch-22 is that I’m waiting on a realistic dream to convert my belief, instead of converting my belief to have realistic LDs. You made good points though and inspired new ideas. Maybe my idea of DC’s should change. Having the idea that they are “boring and vacant,” I could indeed be making them “boring and vacant.”

chosenone, I can somewhat understand that analogy. Like some say that violent video games is the cause of the recent increase in violence. Rubbish, I say. What video games did Nazi’s play? Or al qaeda? If only the problem was that easy.
Sleep paralysis and nightmares exist anyways, the remedy is not “don’t practice LDs.” It doesn’t seem to work for the people that give that advice.

Rossi, This is a common problem called “nocturnal bruxism.” Also known as “teeth grinding.” Any dentist will tell you this, it affects up to 20% of the general population. My brother does this and his teeth can be heard across the room. The radio also has commercials for “The Doctor’s NightGuard Dental Protector.” You can check this link:
drugstore.com - the doctor’s nightguard
The only risk is dental, but a very serious dental risk. I would recommend your parents visit a dentist, or purchase the nightguard from a local drugstore. If left untreated it can wear down your molars, and may cause teeth loss.
BUT! It can be caused by stress. So, eliminating the nightmares and fear could eliminate this problem.

Our forum is living proof of how people are affected by lucid dreams. We are the source and the product of lucid dreams.
Where are all the post about people’s “less-safe” experiences? Where are the threads telling us how lucid dreams have ruined their life? Why are the people that actually practice LDs never post about this? It’s always “someone else said…” it is never “I experienced this…” You would think that if this is true, this forum would be littered with horror stories.

Hi
I want to say something about nightmares:

When I was a little kid, I had lots of nightmares.I remember some of them very good, as if they happened to me only some days ago (in fact, they happened about 13 years ago).Well, many kids have nightmares, but I asked my parents about it, and they confirmed that I had more than most kids.

So, back to the point.I learned lucid dreaming cause of my nightmares! At first, this was a very frightening experience for a 4 year old, since I knew I was dreaming, and I knew horrible things were about to happen, but I couldn´t do anything about it.Have to admit that this was worse than any “normal” nightmare.Anyway, I learned some things about the dream world, e.g that I can fall from high buildings and won´t be harmed.And I learned to wake up myself from dreams, this was one of the most important things.Unfortunally it didn´t always work, but I also learned that dreams can´t really harm me.
Well, I forgot about lucid dreaming, and it took me more than 10 years to discover it again.
Now, I can´t remember any real nightmare that happened to me in the last 2 years.Some dreams were a bit disturbing, but there wasn´t one single dream that I would not have had if I could have decided about it.
In my lucid dreams I am quite strong, I don´t even need to wake up myself anymore, I will try to face my fears when they “hunt” me.

At first nightmares can get worse cause of lucid dreaming, but if you just try to banish dreams from your mind, you will never really “defeat” nightmares.For that purpose lucid dreaming is ideal.
I know I am not alone with this opinion, many people in here can tell you a similar story (some in here have so few nightmares that they even TRY to have nightmares by intention!)

Traumgänger

Hey, I like this, internet communities are REALLY useful! There is always someone who has information about a specific problem and by sticking together here we create a powerful information centre for all dreamers looking for help.

Rossi, if your parents solve the stress caused by sleep paralysis and accompanying nightmares/hallucinations they will go to the root of the problem… and meanwhile if they get help for their teeth grinding they can already eliminate one of the physical symptoms .

DA I have another idea to make dreams more realistic. I will explain it in the Laboratory so people can do some experiments.

(on a less serious note:)

I saw a documentary last week about Charlie Chaplin, and there was an old guy who was close to Hitler who said that Hitler REPEATEDLY saw “The Great Dictator”… and surprisingly he really seemed to like that movie. That movie was a brilliant humouristic statement AGAINST Hitler and human folly in general. Still Hitler liked it. Yes, human beings are really much more complex than we want to believe.

Don’t even get me started on the bad rap people are trying to lay on video games because of bad parenting and a lazy society!!

Rossi, your parents situation is trully upsetting. I can’t imagine living a life… or even a large part of one where I spent every night having those sorts of troubles and then waking up just as tired as when I fell asleep.

I don’t know what kind of people your parents are but if they’re spiritual people and believe the problem is thus caused, you could try a very easy ritual of burning white sage around your house. A lot of people do this, especially when they move into a new place, because, traditionally, sage is supposed to be spiritually cleansing. My parents had it done when we moved into the house we’re in now. You can actually buy little sheaves of sage rolled for burning. Its a nice smell and if your parents are spiritually minded they might find that it helps.

I’m not sure of the background of the ritual but I know that lots of different denominations do this. The idea is that the sage smoke cleans a space from negative and harmful vibrations. People do it in new homes in order to empty the place out and make it their own. Sounds kind of trippy-hippy but…

Couldn’t hurt.

Rossiyskaya_Federatsiya, what else do you think would help your parents? Besides the spiritual rituals, did they try to consult a doctor? It seems clear to everybody that your parents are in need of help to overcome this! Can you update us on what’s happening? If this happened to your parents it could easily happen to anyone else for that matter, and it could certainly help other people, so I’d be nice if you keep us updated.

Nope.It was me.And I truly didn’t believe he said that because of anything religious.My dad watches the movie Evolution.

Ah! I couldn’t remember who posted that. My bad!