You guys just keep talking about thousand chemical ways to get lucid or whatever.
I know it’s worth a lot.
But in my opinion, you can achieve everything without any kind of drugs or psycoactives. The human mind is way more powerful than you might think.
Greetings
Raven 24
Iagree with you completely. I’m a natural LDer and I can get LD when I really desire for a LD. I have never used any chemicals to induce a LD except that I have learned that drinking a full glass of milk improves the chances of LD. That’s it. 
I think everyone here knows that they can do it without aides but a a little help doesn’t hurt. Well depending on what you use 
I guess but I think some people just want a boost. LDing isn’t as easy for some people as it is for others and i think it’s ok to try different things.
yep. I wont preach. (previous diologue deleted)
Sheesh…Everybody dies!
As for the discussion on achieving lucidity through the use of drugs.
Putting chemicals into your body is a personal choice.
Living a natural, chemical free life is a difficult path these days though.
Especially if you were brought up living on fast convenient foods or in an environment that does not encourage drug-free or chemical-free living.
I think for our own good, we should try what we feel more comfortable with…I prefer trying the natural way, meditation, visualisations, time and patience.
I drink milk around three time a day and I have LDs all the time and no health problems and I’m not overweight and i have all my teeth etc… I think it’s good for some people and not for others just like everything else. It’s never made me sick even when I got mouth surgery and it was the only thing I could eat for a week. Ok enough of that. I lived with a vegan for a year so I still think that argument is one of the most annoying things in the world 
.
Anyways my responce to this whole conversation is that not everything is right for every person. Every person is different so different things are right for different people. 
Phanthom is right about chemicals and hormones that some dairy farmers put into their cows. Thats true about everything we market as food though. Its so hard to find decent unspoiled, unaltered food. Why do we do that to ourselves… oh yeah greed. Doesn’t stop me from drinking milk though. We have some local dairy farmers here in Maine, luckily, that are actually pretty decent.
As for chemicals… I used to be very straight edge in high school. I was sure that I would never get drunk or high. As I got older I changed. I have to say I don’t really like drinking that much and its horrible on your system. I much prefer my five leafed friend. Its so much gentler. Its not for LDing though… I have always done that naturally. I just like the way cannibinoids shift my perception. I find being in that state intensely fascinating. Almost as fascinating as my non-toxified state! 
Yes, I completly agree to Aydira.Everyone in here knows how powerfull the mind is, but it is difficult to use that power, and drugs can be a help to achieve this.
I don´t think that it is a sign of weakness or lacking selfconfidence or something when you do drugs.It is just one of many ways, and I use any way that doesn´t seem too dangerous to me.
In fact, I´d rather try drugs than technical stuff such as brain wave generator, but those decisions everyone has to do for themselves.
Traumgänger
PS:I am not vegan, but vegetarian, and I also learned that there is absolutely no point in arguing about moral stuff
The other persons feel like you or they don´t, to be vegetarian isn´t something that I can base on reasonable discussion, although I can try to explain why I am.
Im ready to try anything that helps me in reaching my goal.Wheter its a milk,pot or brain surgery:)
Personal experience counts for me most.I just like to rely on my own feeling to things.(milk is bad?let me try it.yeah it tastes bad,i will not drink it anymore:)Of course there are limits,im not going to try how addictive heroin is:)
Aydira put it best way,i agree completely…everyones got his own path,let him stay on it if it makes him happy:)
Actually I still don’t know any chemical that can help you LDing without any effort required, so inducing LDs is still at least 99% mind job even for those who smoke/drink/sniff/swallow every chemical in the world all day long… so we’re actually discussing a completely theoretical problem
Exactly right,
you don’t even need these things at all. That’s all I’m saying. It’s perfectly O.K. for me if somebody takes whatever he thinks works for him, but you can do everything by mindwork alone. You ain’t need anything.
By the way: I do like milk 
Greetings
Raven24