Ultra Super Duper Dream Induction

Hey guys, I mentioned in one post a couple of minutes ago about a time where I induced a dream like it was nothing. Lets recap: I lay down into bed, pull the covers over me, simply recall and visualize the ending sequence in my final dream from the previous night, and obtain 100% lucidity with no false awakenings, no dream fading, so on and so forth. I know there has to be other LDers out there who have experienced this and I refuse to believe that I was simply “In the zone” for LDing that night. All though it happened only once and it was 11 years ago, I believe I can do it again. I have recently been reading Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, and have been very disappointed with the methods of LD induction. Now obviously, the method I mentioned earlier will not work for most people (sorry for cursing you by letting you read that) and it obviously doesnt even work for me since its happened once in my 18 years of LDing. This is most likely because I was so young when it happened that I was not aware of certain lurking variables that might have had an effect on me that night. I have thoroughly researched the topic of LDing (maybe not as much as good ol’ doc Steven) and am confident that if we work together, we can develop a new induction method that consumes less time than MILD, WILD, etc.
Some interesting facts and why they are/were relevant to the induction method I used that night:
The first REM period doesn’t usually start until at least an hour and a half into your sleep. This does not hold true if you just work up from 4 or 5 hours of sleep because if you fall back asleep you will most likely slip straight into REM. I am positive I slipped into the dream within 10 seconds of being awake the normal 16 hours. This means that I most likely did not slip into REM. If I wasn’t in REM, then I must have been using a powerful combination of visualization and self-hypnosis. If I did slip into REM immidiately, I must have found a trick for doing so. One thing is for sure, I did not fall asleep in a normal matter.
As I analyze induction, I begin to realize this is really the one area of Lucid Dreaming that remains to be explored aside from the dream world itself. Using logic, one can easily assume that there must be greater shortcuts to lucidity than the nova dreamer and certain drugs. Here is an example of a shortcut to mastery that doesn’t pertain to dreaming: In the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, author Bruce Lee says that a master of boxing ends each one of his punches with a snap of the wrist. He then goes on to explain how this added momentum is essential to power and how it takes years of practice to master. It was later revealed (in a different book) that Lee did not develop his snap of the wrist out of years of practice. Instead, he found it by accident. Lee was trying to increase the speed of his punches by gripping one pound weights and punching infront of his nose several times a day. While doing so, Lee noticed that the weight forced a little extra movement at the end of his punches. He soon realized this movement was adding power to his punches so he began to emulate this movement, whithout the weights in hand. Presto, within a matter of weeks he had accomplished something that took many a boxer years to accomplish. I think you guys understand what I am getting at. Please email me at pakrat@attbi.com if you are interested in helping me devise a new form of LD induction.

“Ultra Super Duper Dream Induction”-
" Now obviously, the method I mentioned earlier will not work for most people (sorry for cursing you by letting you read that) and it obviously doesnt even work for me since its happened once in my 18 years of LDing."

thats confusing:(

I’m all for developing a way to enter REM sleep instantly, though I can’t help but wonder if it would actually be harmful to do so. The first hour and a half of sleep consists of different stages in which I’m not exactly sure wat’s happening, but I’m certain you can’t live without it.

Quite a few years ago I experienced something similar to what you describe. I went to bed after a full day of consciousness, and I swear I could actually watch the dream appearing from the distance, bringing with it a strange ringing sound that went away shortly after. I’m convinced that this was WILD without the usually necessary sleep beforehand, though I can’t help but wonder why I havn’t done it since. Naturally, I had no idea what it was at the time - this was about 10 years ago. :wink:

Perhaps children have the ability to enter REM sleep immediately? There are certainly a number of other things we can do at a young age, and lose as we get older.

Looking at my dream diary, I can recognise instances where I have definately not slept for the full 1 1/2 hours before starting my first dream of the night.
In one example, I checked the clock before I fell asleep. My husband came into the room 3/4 hour later and woke me up. I recalled a dream which I had in this period of time.

I don’t know how I did it, though. :eh:

hmmm first of all u had that when u were 11 years younger…now u are 18 so u were a kid then.
Well as a kid we have much more alpha waves then grownups so it is then anyway a lot easier to this…
I still say most is decided for us by talent not by the tech we use 4 a wild…
Still its of course intersting if there is a direct way…i say yes…i have had it a few times as a grown up…and because of my long experience with trance/meditation and selfhypnosis and many tests with a connected eeg machine i say it was those rare times because I generated a dominant part of alpha waves…if u can induce an dominant alpha trance (dominant to beta waves) in short time u are there…but thats not so easy and very much talent based to…i succeeded only 3 times in say 15 years…not much…I know how its done but its very very difficult to master…but if u can u can go straight into a dream or ld…But u may have not a single thought left in your mind…u have to be total clear…very very hard indeed…
So i dont think this will be an interesting way for anyone but a zen master or yogi…and a few happy exceptions…
So yes it exists, but so much talent is needed 4 this…dont under estemate that!

About bruce lee your wrong…
That snap from wrist was not his invention he took it from wing chun kung fu witch he studied and took from China to America…
If u dont believe this well wing chun kungfu existed long before bruce lee and with it the moves and tech also on paper…he mixed wing chun with his own moves and judo and some more martial arts…
What he invented was more being flexible and not sticking to one martial art or tactic…in a fight…and thats smart.

Yah sorry about that. I just reread the Jeet Kune Do text and it doesn’t say that is how he developed his snap, I only assumed so. He basically just recommended the 1 pound wait to novice jeet kune do practitioners. I don’t want to offend any Bruce Lee fans :sad:

Hahaha :happy:

hi
i’m interested with jeffs replay. about 1/3 of my lds heppend in first 30 min of get into bed.(my last ld was 2 mounths ago)
jeff said the only way to reach wild is making mind empty . how about observing the toughts u dont think that it works too? we know that cleaning the mind is a bit ( just a bit :wink: ) hard. so wat do u suggest ? forget the wild?

Hmmm, its a little different Mazdak
If u want to go instant and without wasting time into a ld…starting from a wild u have to be really empty…but there are many ways to accomplish a wild…
Some are just count till u fall a sleep and then u dont have to be empty so there are many wild ways…but Park of Koryo spoke of an super duper induction…like instant wild/ld and then u have to be empty yes…but
there are many ways to do a wild and not all have to be empty, like for instance the counting way.

If u on the other hand want to experience every detail and level from a wild then u have to be empty again…so depends on your goal and on witch method u use.

Well u can always lookat your thoughts till u fall sleep…but then again u can also just fall a sleep…without doing this…just nap at midday and hope u get lucid in your dream…but can u call this a wild?
Same as looking at your thoughts and fall a sleep at a certain point…can u call this a wild tech? Counting is then for sure a wild tech and it works better i think. I think looking at your thoughts comes closer to what we call meditation…wich helps a wild also.

You can live without it. There’s a form of sleep called “abbreviated polyphasic sleep”, wherein you sleep at intervals all day (for instance, 20 minutes every 4 hours) which causes you to only get REM sleep. The physiological effects are unknown, but people feel rested and certainly don’t die from it, even after doing it for years.

I feel rested when I remember many dreams, but much REM probably means lots of deep sleep too. Lab rats die if they don’t sleep, and they also die if they don’t have REM. Sure those patients survived because your body makes sure you get sleep even if you toy with it to that extent.

From what I understand, REM sleep is for sorting thoughts, and deep sleep is for regenerating physically. Those patients would technically be sane, but give them a few years and physical health issues will kill them.

I do something similar

1.Wake up from a nights rest
2.Pull the sleeping bag over my head
3:Relax(not to hard to do when your still sleepy)
4.Lucid Dream(WILD)

works every morning without any sign of failing,although it may not be that easy for everyone.

I have experienced someting similar to that. Hey, that’s what caused me to fall asleep fast! Now I know! :smile: I have discovered that by an accident when I went back to my bed and lay on my back. I just quietly watched my thoughts as it goes by then all of a sudden, I expeienced a sinking sensation and I felt like I was going through every stage of REM levels before I began to dream. I was overwhelmed when my dream began. It felt like just five seconds before I went into a dream. I remember thinking, “Damn. How did I do that?” Now I know. Maybe I will try that tonight and see if I can empty my thoughts… which is very difficult thing for me to do unless some miracles happen. You know what I’m saying? Just a one cent. :cool:

yeah, apparetly you have more chance of dreaming if you lay on your back, which if your like me, isnt easy to do.

i find that if i try to sleep on my back, my eyes will slightly open, which is very distracting, i find what its easier to sleep sideways or on your belly.

-stokesy

DM7, I got the same thing when I tried WILD for the first time.
I counted and looked at my eyelids and in like two minutes got this overwhelming sinking feeling- like a huge bodyrush… then flashing geometric patterns. The feeling was kind of too much and I broke off. Guess I should try to push through tonight.
Pleasant dreams,
Ian

By the way, last night I decided to see if I can modify some methods so I can get a WILD and fall asleep fast. I thought about this forum and how I replied about trying it again tonight. So I did, I laid on my back, I decided to put some extra pillows so my chest and head is at about 45 degree angle. I focused at my breathing, slow and deep. I let my thoughts go by and the next thing I knew was I am experiencing the vibrations off and on. I try to focus… I felt very heavy and frozen. I was starting to experience that sinking sensation when my leg jumped because of that tiny itch there! That woke me up and I gave up and slept on my side. I drifted off and had no LDs that night. :sad: I shouldn’t have given that up so easily! I’m so stupid.

DM7, good luck with that. I’m gonna try again tonight.
Have you guys ever tried meditation (hara) breathing? I find I relax so much faster–> You focus on the exhalations… try to use your muscles only in exhalation, and let your belly filly up with air by itself as much as possible on the inhalations. This is how babies breath- it’s called “hara” breathing.
So you count each exhalation and start over at ten. If you mess up you start at one. It’s easier to concentrate on counting during the exhalations. Weird. I have a lot more experience with zazen meditation but I’m new with LDing, so I’m trying to put it to use.
As for the itching… I remember mosquitos landing on my face during zazen. Awful.
:happy: Peace, Ian

scince ur talking aout REM and just thought i’d input. Once i went to sleep and it felt like i didnt go into REM at all! Usually u feel as if u had a dream or at least that time has passed, but when i woke up it felt like 2 mins had passed! i was a little freaked out but think how cool it would be if u could do that on comand! “I’m bord, well i have something to do in the morning so ill just go to sleep” two mins later u are up and 10 hours have passed! kinda like time travel lol.

:eek: It’d be better if time seems longer so we can dream more! Dreaming is much more fun than having to do oridinary and normal things where in your dreams you can do anything you want. Be a powerful wizard or rule the world… sounds more fun eh? :wiske:

Geez, I have been trying for other two nights striaght to see if I can speed up the REM cycle. I only have been successful one time though, but I woke up before I began to dream again. Let me tell you about it…

I put pillows on my back to be 45* evalated so I can breathe easier. I’m not one of the back sleeper because I always wake up, gasping for air. It’s easier to sleep on my right side though… I usually doze off and have no LDs. I’m working on sleeping on my left side… it seems to promote more LDs. Don’t ask me why though. Anyways, I focused on my breathing… especially on exhausing. I relax and all of a sudden, I experienced a sink sensation. It remain that way for a while until I’m almost completely paraylized (sorry, am used to type it in present sense like my dream journal :razz:). All of a sudden, the vibration hit me and the random swirlings became very vivid. It scared hell out of me that I woke up immediately! Arrrr! :grrr: I try again several times with no successes then I give up and sleep on my right side. I doze off…

I’m having no luck with it. I already experienced a lot of what I called it, “Speed Sleep.” in my childhood and few in few past years. I just loved what I experienced cuz I usually have vivid WILD dreams because of that speed sleep techniques. I never have been able to find how I did it though. All I know is that drinking a full glass of milk is helpful to that speed sleep. :shrug: