Athiest,
I can understand your apprehension regarding the dynamics of “OBE’s”.
How they can actually occur and so on. I do not have any concrete theory on what actually happens during one, and I also am open to (believe it or not) the possibility that they may be purely a mental construct like any other type of dream. But what I am saying is that in my personal experience there is something about an OBE that makes it…different. I have experienced normal non lucid dreams, lucid dreams, sleep paralysis and so on. I have flown in many dreams, sometimes lucid, more often not. To me there is a major difference between a flying dream and the experience of an out of body projection. I have had a couple of dozen flying dreams perhaps, and perhaps a dozen “OBE” type experiences. I personally find a great difference between the two.
An OBE is not just flying about…it is the perceived detachment of mind or spirit or whatever you wish to call it from the physical body from it’s place of rest. And the intense, consistent electrifying rush which occurs each time I perform this action. I have become lucid in many different dream situations, but what I am saying here is that the OBE type situation is unique in it’s clarity and consistency. If it is just a result of imagination at work as in a dream, why then do many people report intense electrical activity during an OBE?
Why would the imagination in so many different individuals produce such a similar effect? The very fact that the symptoms of an OBE are so broadly accepted and documented world wide must surely raise some questions?
I try to follow my own instincts on matters that defy “logic”. I don’t claim to have all the answers, far from it. To be honest I didn’t even give a fiddlers for OBE’s to begin with. I was just interested in becoming lucid. Then one night I experienced an OBE and it blew me away…it stood out from anything else I had ever encountered, LD’s included. All I believe is that due to the nature of my experiences I am going to keep an open mind as to what may be occurring, as those experiences flew in the face of any preconceived idea of reality I had at the time. I am just reporting my experiences here…nothing more nothing less. People can take them as they find them. We could argue back and forth what is really happening but truth be known, neither of us can say for sure. All I can say with any certainty is how I experienced and interpreted these events. They were and are my “reality” and I tell them as I saw them. Like I said I would not expect nor desire everyone else to see things from my point of view. Things get very stagnant when everyone is in agreement. Though the subject of OBE’s on this board is definitely one of the more contentious issues! Anyway, I guess I have said my all on the subject. This board is ultimately about lucid dreaming, and I personally am more interested in the subject of LD’s right now myself.
I couldn’t agree more. You probably already realize this, but your post was based on uncertainty. You said ‘perhaps’, ‘could’, and ‘possible’ several times. You’re absolutely right, there could be elements that make up who we are which aren’t visible to any of the senses that we currently use. The brain could function as hub for all manner of astral energy and other undetectable phenomanon which assist it in doing things like allowing OBEs, Astral Projection, ect.
I don’t deny there is a possibility, but my believes are kept in a different box to my hopes and speculations. Millions of people hope that they’re not as pointless as it would appear. They hope that they are here for purpose, and that there is a plan for them after this physical body stops functioning. Having not seen any evidence that this is the case, I join them in hoping. However, I don’t believe. It’s all just a matter of how much faith you have in your hopes. I don’t mean to be offensive with this, but the technical term for it is delusion.
There is almost certainly much more to life than we can see, hear or otherwise sense. But rather than trying to guess what it is, I live by relying on what I can so far prove. For each possibility that something exists outside of our ability to detect, an equal chance exists that perhaps there IS nothing else out there. What you see is what there is.
I’d rather not think of this as a debate, but more of an exchange of ideas. I’m willing to change my opinions like a light switch, and a lot of people here have some interesting ideas that I enjoy reading.
Yeah. Well I don’t want to state something as if it’s a fact if it’s simply a brief idea in my head.
I don’t believe we go on after death either.
Please don’t think that just because I sometimes question the truth of science, that this means I am religious or that I believe in everything which is the complete opposite to science. I am actually very non-religious. This was actually the point of my ealier message I think.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that you’re saying that I am religious, I simply wanted to point out that I’m not.
I simply like to question the nature of reality from time to time, for my own amusement as much as nything.
Yeah. That’s a pretty good approach to life really I guess.
I guess the way I see it is that nothing but your own experiences really mean crap at all. If you experience an OBE and it feels real to you then thats what matters. Take something from it and use it to help yourself grow. If you have a theory (or a desire to experiment with something… like astral projection) then set out to test it with an open mind. I think to begin by saying that something does or dosen’t exist without proof of either is … well, your own business, but I find it sad and closed minded.
I guess thats why I dislike it when people come into a discussion on how to OBE and say that its all just a dream or a bunch of crap as though an authority. If its not something you believe in then let people get on with their own studies and check your negativism at the door. I have no problem with someone stating a contrary belief but its most often stated as a truth that everyone should be going by rather than a differing opinion. (That wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. I just see it a lot in these types of discussions … no flames please! )
Apparently new born babies senses are still so rudementary and linked so closely that sounds will affect their vision. Saw it on “Body Story” I love that show. A loud bang may cause vision to waver and ripple.
For me its not about if an obe can or cant…or is or aint possible…
For me its more about being critical and do tests…and if u dont, then dont give it a name yet…its easy to give every experience a name if u dont do tests 4 what is is…specially in consciousness and brain experiences…
Dont say to fast its this or that…i did tests…my obe’s were lds…could also been i had found out they were true…but testing is better…or else u can say or believe anything and thats a form of closemindedness to…balance lays in the middle here.
I’m just wondering how people see in OBEs, because our spirits(or what ever you call it) doesn’t have eyes. My theory is that OBEs are real, and it is our mind which makes us see(so we can navigate in OBEs).
Maybe we have some unnatural senses during OBEs, like telepathy.
that said our spirits don’t really have a human form either, we generally see ourselves in human form because it is easier to accept.
We don’t need eyes because we are just engery.
the best thing about OBE and AP is that if you are willing to believe you can be anything you can chose any form you like, human, animal, ball of energy, whatever or whoever you like.
I prefer AP to OBE because there’s less chance you are just dreaming it as an AP is done with the consciousmind where as OBEs like LDs are doing with the subconscious when sleeping.
well one thing i do know in my few astral projections i have success with i have noticed that i do not see as you would when awake. I see in all directions at all times.
I was reading something online that described it as “8 corners view” in that you can litterally see all 8 corners of the room. (rooms are cubed - so 8 corners 4 at the top 4 at the bottom - so as not to confuse people hehe)
maybe “perfect awareness” would be a more fitting term.
Isn’t astral projection and out of body experiences the same thing? You don’t have to be asleep while your having an OBE and you definitely don’t have to be unconscious during it.
Anyway, if somebody could tell me, what’s the difference between WILD and AP anyway? I mean, who’s to say there’s a difference at all? The techniques for each of them are more or less the same, the feelings, vibrations and that are the same. Anything you imagine when you astral project will appear. Anything you imagine LDing will appear. People have reported while APing that the world isn’t as it should be, doors missing or in the wrong places and things like that. Isn’t it the exact same with a lucid dream? Maybe, it’s just that when people are intentionally trying to astral project, as they go into the dream, there mind creates a scene where they are floating above there bodies? Then, do whatever they do until they wake back up, thinking that they’re exploring the real world, when really it’s just a creation of their mind? Exactly like a dream, when you think it’s the real world, but it’s inside your own mind you just haven’t figured it out. I mean, is there really any proven difference?
Wouldn’t it be funny if people who think they have been astral projecting their whole lives it’s really just been in their own mind, and thinking it was seriously their astral bodies travelling through the real world, have been limited from all the things you can do in a lucid dream, and they’ve never realized it?
P.S. Insane goth, I think what you’re talking about is 360 degree vision. am I right? When you are able to see all around you at once? anyway …
I believe that dreaming can lead you to another part of your brain that you dont use often. But I also believe that OBEs are different. I think that they are a spritual part that is found deep withen you. Right now the minor things like floating and distorted furniture are just kiddy stuff. In the old days (and now), buddist used that to talk to god and answer questions. Thats why they “know all”. Also they could heal, float, and move things/people. I think it is related to OBEs and meditation.
I go with Ed Case on this one. It is like using your mind to go to another area without moving. If u believe in god, where exactly is he or she? Or maybe there is a separate world for dreams like the greeks believed.
Where did you hear this bs? Im a christian/buddhist and I’ve never heard anything funnier in my life
Levitating and that stuff are more of yogi stuff, not buddhists, and I don’t believe levitating is even possible. It has come from the feeling of “floating” during meditation and that’s why they say they can “float”. And buddhist will certainly NOT go out of their bodies every night to talk to God, because buddhists don’t think that God is important AND the use of meditation is not for leaving their bodies, it’s for attaining enlightenment. That’s why they “know all”(which they don’t), because so many buddhists have attained enlightenment. Enlightenment is merely seeing all things, even yourself, as they are. That healing part maybe correct because of some paraphysical abilities of some monks, but the floating people and objects around?
Oh, and by the way, buddhists dont believe in “soul”, altho I believe. But for me, soul is our lives.
It actually sounds like a description I heard of what our 3-dimensional world would look like if you saw it from a 4-dimensional standpoint, so maybe you were more right than you think.
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I love that show. A loud bang may cause vision to waver and ripple.
Where did you hear this bs? Im a christian/buddhist and I’ve never heard anything funnier in my life