Insomnia?

I’ve been lucid dreaming for years - so long, in fact, that I pretty much take it for granted.

I used to think it was pretty neat, but now I’m beginning to think it’s just another form of insomnia, which I’ve also had for years. The incident that got me thinking this way was a recent night when I actually opened my eyes to check the time in the middle of a dream. The dream kept going in the “background”. This happened 3 times that night.

I’ve had lots of occasions when I’ve been aware that I was in bed while dreaming - even being aware of the position I’m lying in and aware of my Lady beside me, but that was the first time I opened my eyes in a dream. At what point does a lucid dream become a waking hallucination?

I would put this insomnia theory to the test by keeping track of whether I’m more tired on days after LD’s, but I always LD, so there’s nothing to compare with.

Anyone else with thoughts on this?

When I was young I used to think I could astral project. The reasoning for this was that I had lucid dreams every night and they were allways based around the area where I slept.

I later found out that I was just in a lucid dream as some of the things i was able to do wouldn’t be possible to do in astral projection.

Ok… how does this relate to you. An increasing number of people that I have spoke to on the topic of lucid dreaming say that they have tried - with some success - to astral project. However most of them said that they found out that they could do it by accident, by becoming aware of there actual selves at the point of dreaming.

I know it might seem a little far fetched and most people - even on this site - would just cast it of as fantasie. I think it might be a good idea to look into the field of astral projection.

Just a little tip though if you don’t really believe it is possible - to try and save your time… You said that you slept beside somone - ill asume by this that you are married or at least have a steady girlfirend… Get them to place an object somwhere in the house - obviously make sure it is somthing small and that you only have one of :smile:. Then nect time you are aware of your body in your bed, try and focus on the imagery of this object, an dif you end up in the place it is hidden. You will probably find that it is astral projection.

Umm, many people who believe in astral projections being real say that you can do whatever you like while “being out of body”, so the state is actually the same state as being lucid, but you think youre really out of your body.

I personally think that their just dreams in realistic enviroment and its so realistic because your brain will actually think, that youre being pulled out of your body in the sensation of levitating, so that’s why it creates a setting that is like your surroundings, that you wouldn’t go to shock because of the same reason why you shouldn’t wake up a sleepwalker, it’s a shock to wakeup standing somewhere else when you remember of going to sleep in your bed. (This topic discussed in different thread)


And I wouldn’t say you should look at this on field of astral projection. Many people see dreams while awake, these are like the absolute hypnagocic imagery. I’ve felt my body thru dreams too, and sometimes I wake up because of it.

Hi everyone & Dead,

I take it you never were convinced of the ability of Astral Projection then after your post in the other thread?

Just have to put a little reply, not to contradict you, but to emphisise some of that, that i have been told of astral projection in the past.

Astal projection odes not allow the ability to do anything you want, there is a school of thought that believes in a imagary plain of OBE (Out of body experiences) but this is not what i mean by astral projection.

The astral plain of OBE is but one plain that is known of. In fact through my readings in the past - and with some first hand experience with the munroe institute - there are believed to be upto 13 plains that are known of in OBEs.

The astral plain is that in which the physical world appears in a basically out of sync way. The best way in which i have heard it explained is a physical memory of the physical in the past, present, and on some occasions future. This means that this object that i spoke of hiding, basically appears in many different places.

It exists in its truest form in the place that it currently holds in the physical world. it also exists in a less true form in the past and future of where the object has been and will be.

This means that when you try to find the object you look for it in the place that you saw it last. Without knowing it the astral body reacts to the object in its past place and basically traces it instantaniously - from the viewers POV - to the place it is now… Hence you find it.

Just an opinion, but still worth a look - even to justify your belife that it is wrong.

I can see what you mean now, but still, it doesn’t convince me. If OBEs and all are real, I think you don’t leave your body, but that it chould have something to do with ESP and somekind of “ultimate awareness” or something, but hardly.

I don’t believe in different kind of planes, I believe in this world and how it is. Any other plane isn’t real, atleast for me. If theres any other plane, it’s inside our minds. Just my point of view.

ddfr: Sorry to say, but I don’t believe in astral projection. Even if I did, this was nothing so exotic. I never left the bed, or even changed position for that matter. I was already aware that I was lying on my side facing the stereo I use as a clock radio, so I just opened my eyes, noticed the time, and closed my eyes again.

The only thing different from the hundeds of times in the past that I have woken in the middle of the night to look at the time, is that the dreams never stopped. Usually when I wake up it takes a long time for me to go back to sleep, sometimes an hour or more.

I’m pretty sure that I didn’t just dream that I looked at the stereo because in my dream I noticed that the time displayed was 2:28 on all three occasions. When I finally got up I noticed that I hadn’t set the off-timer and the display was actually still showing the length of the first cut on the CD I had been listening to, which was 2:28. I had no way of expecting this to happen when I went to sleep.

Anyway, it seemed kind of strange.

2 tired,
I definitely do not suffer from the same level of difficulty you are exhibiting, but have something similar from time to time.
I will be LDing with little restfullness - so I jolt awake & try again. It’s hard for me to wake-up sometimes so this can be a process. In my experience, though, after enough jolts I will eventually enter dreaming without consciouness. Ahhh, sleep…

Side note: If you’re having trouble with insomnia in general, I have a trick that works well for me. Buy The Oddessy in audio form & listen to it at bedtime. A) It’s a great cue for your sleepy-time chemicals to start pumping, and B) It’s VERY rhythmic & relaxing :flower:

Meow:

Thanks for the suggestion, but what is The Oddessy? Is it one of those natural sound effect CD’s?

I like to go to sleep to music by Enya, but falling asleep at bedtime isn’t usually a problem. Staying asleep for more than an hour or two is. And I don’t like to turn on the stereo again in the middle of the night because it would disturb my Lady.

2tired your answer is, On the border between sp and rem stage. Sp meaning sleep paralyses.
What you have is not average…and what causes it is the brain part called the thalamus. That part decides how good we are connected with our waking part of the brain while we dream. so witch signals come true and with not. So you can be in both worlds a bit at the same time.

Greetz,
Jeff

Jeff, so what you’re saying is that dreaming but being aware of one’s real surroundings is actually a state between REM sleep and sleep paralysis? I don’t remember ever experiencing sleep paralysis as such, is that like the sensation of dreaming that you’re running but can only move your legs slowly and with great effort? Once, in a LD I decided that this was like shifting into high gear - action slows and effort increases, but you move faster. Sort of like the six million dollar man - running in slow motion, but actually moving very fast. Now I enjoy the sensation.

You say the thalamus determines how well the brain connects dreaming with being awake. What causes the thalamus to malfunction? Does this interfere with REM sleep? Maybe that is the root of my insomnia.

“The Oddessy” is an epic poem by Homer that can be purchased as an audio-book. Its one of the oldest stories on record and is about 9 hours long. The reason that I recommend it so highly is that the words are strange and the phrasing peciliar. Its almost dreamlike in itself when read by a good voice talent and lulls the listener to sleep. Also, its an interesting story, so you don’t have time to think about not sleeping.

Myself, my husband, and my sister have all had really positive effects from using this technique. In fact, I don’t have insomnia practically at all anymore. Really, though, any melodically read story from a different era would probably work OK. :flower:

Hi 2tired…yeah i ment between sleeping and waking, normally you have there sleep paralyses (brain part called the pons)as well as the thalamus changing its output. There is the balance point in the thalamus, it opens or shutdown signals between the cortex and your memory the hippocampus which is very avtive in rem stage. So sleep parlayses isnt active in this case but easely could.
I read in an article it is because the info stream is opposite of when we are awake…i mean from cortex to memory (hippocampus) and opposite when you dream. If i can find the article i mail it to you.

Jeff

Meow:
I remember hearing about that poem in school, but I never read any of it. 9 hours is a long poem! I’ll see if I can find the audio version. I tried to read “Beowulf” once - it put me to sleep!

Jeff:
Thanks for the info. If you find that article, I would like to read it. I think I need to do some research on sleep.