"God this, God that" In the USA

This is just a post for us to discuss some Court Cases going on in the US about saying “God” in the pledge of alliegence, and about having the Ten Commandments in some state capital buildings and school rooms. I’ll go first with my point of view—

I think it is completely understandable for God to be mentioned, and for the Ten Commandments being shown, in fact I think it should be incouraged. I do, because the basis of our human freedoms, of our equalness, comes from God, and this is exactly what the founding fathers thought. In The Declaration of Independance, the founding document of Amerca, it says

So there is one mention of God, but here is another, more important one.

There, right there! It states that these rights come from our creator. They are talking about God. I’d appriciate an replies, Thanks ~ben

If they were trying to build a country based completely on christians morals, they would have made all the ten commandments laws. There wasn’t any laws against adultery or cursing god out, plus religious freedom was added when they could easily discriminate against other religions. That whole “this nation was built on Christian values” comes from the fact that the majority of settlers were christian. On the same hand, dutch was the major language moreso than english so I guess you could say this “country was founded by dutch values” too.

Also, just by having god in the constitution does not mean he should have a prominent role in rulling it. Every document back then started out like that(“in the year of our lord 1756” etc…) and the separation of church and state has been something the government has followed since it’s beginning. I don’t know what bunch of good christians wouldn’t take it apon themselves to separate their religion from their country if they were basing the country off of it’s principles.

Now personally I think the people who bring these things to court are just morons looking for attention(no reason a atheist should be offended by something he believes doesn’t exist) but I don’t like it either when people point out “God” in the constitution inorder to justify one-sided christian moral values while completely ignoring separation of church and state.

No offense Ben7, but this country wasn’t made to be a bastacion for christian-esque laws. It was made to be a uptopian society that would be based off roman and greek politics according to the founding fathers.

Religion should never be a part of politics, whether it’s pledging alliegence as a nation under God or prosecution influenced by religious morals. It’s sad that the most powerful nation in the world has leaders that actually believe in Christianity. That right there shows they don’t have a high regard for reason. Not only that but their entire view of life is just horribly distorted. Or maybe they know Christianity is bullshit and they just use it as a ploy to get away with fcked up shit. In any case, the world would be in much better shape if America didn’t have this fcking Christian ego.

I totally agree with you

Omg…Christianity…bullshit??? how so? All modern laws are based on Justinian’s code, which comes from the Bible. The Bible is the basis for all moral principles in the USA. Where do you get all your rights, your freedom? You are given them from your Creator, God, and that is undeniably exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Just because our laws are based on Christianity doesn’t mean that the religion is true. The laws you’re talking about were made by our “Founding Fathers” because they wanted to make a system that God would approve of. That in no way means that God exists, just that they believed in Him. We get our rights and freedom from the people who make the laws, and God has nothing to do with it. Christianity has too many flaws, too many unanswered questions that have been completely ignored until now. About the ten commandments in schools and stuff, I don’t think they’re really a problem, but we have to remember that there are families from every where around the world from many different religions with different laws. So as long as they’re not being forced to accept something that goes against their religion then just having the ten commandments up doesn’t do anyone harm. But in court and things like that, maybe they should be changed. I mean, why would someone who doesn’t believe in God be forced to take an oath for Him?

There’s an article on the section of the Constitution which deals with religion here:

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/cons … 01/01.html

Interesting that James Madison, the so-called ‘Father (sometimes Grandfather) of the Constitution’ originally proposed that ‘The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established…’ though the language was diluted as it approached ratification.

The founding father’s were probably all Christian to a man, however, they recognized that in their old home people weren’t allowed to worship as they saw fit and thus they made it a basic right for those with differing opinions to have them and not be persecuted.

Ben7, a person’s free will and “God given rights” are only given to him by God in your eyes (and those of other believers). I am not saying whether I believe in God or no. I am certainly no Christian and I have to say that, in MOST of the Christians I have met, I find some very UN-Christian beliefs being touted in the name of God. Gay-bashing for one. Christ and God alike told everyone to love every other human on the planet and when it came to judgement, that was God’s department and his alone. No one seems to remember that one though.

I’m not saying Christianity is wrong (indeed I find very noble and fascinating aspects to this and many other religions) but when it comes down to it, I believe that they have NO right, and neither does any other religion, in bringing their religious code of morals into the government. Especially when our government has been built to allow the greatest amount of freedom to all without allowing harm to any.

Take prohibition. A lot of religious people were for prohibition because drinking was viewed by them to be a sin… but its not for people who don’t share those religious views. This is why our country allows those who see it as a sin to choose to have no part in it and those who don’t, may drink their fill… unless it becomes an issue of public safety.

I don’t agree with abrickinthewall though. I see no reason why belief in God is in any way more or less rational than just believing that everything came about due to compressed matter exploding. Their are a GREAT many holes in scientific knowledge and theory and there are no deffinite answers there either. What was outside the compressed matter? Where does the universe end? Where did it come from? Was it just always there? There are failures to answer questions like these on both sides of the fence. To call Christianity illogical or moronic is insulting and not very well thought out when there is no perfect other example to base it on. Im not saying that its right to believe one way or the other but I don’t hold in saying other people are way off in their beliefs when you don’t have the answers either.

Umm just check out the court room vow: “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?”

In England you can swear on any holy book of your choice, or none at all. I expect it’s the same in America.

wonder if I could swear on a playboy

Well,you probably could Sleepy,but that’s not the point I wanted to make.

What I wanted to say is that the law in the Constitution for religous freedom reads as follows: “There shall be no law made for or against religion”

So,we might have to change the pledge,say, instead of pledging “One nation under God” it’s “One nation under our God”.

But we can’t change the fact that some people in power will be religous.IMO,trying to make it so that only atheists are in power is just as bad as people trying to make it so that only Christians are in power.

as i always say…two things you should never talk about…religion and politics…both have different views…and neither side will agree…

Well i think the idea of the country was to be free, so if you think about it, either way if its christian or not we still do what we want to do.

Well said, just look back on when religion used to be in control, everybody was burned just b/c the villagers thought they were witches.

Religion is politics, or politics is a religion…

This goes both ways etc. and I’m just scared that with that comment this turns into an immense topic with people ranting back and forth without the conversation leading to anywhere… and me posting pictures like chosenone.spektr.net/co2.gif

Hmm, arn’t most of the laws in the bible based on the old laws of Jeruselum?

Christian beliefs are inherently an irrational way of thinking because of the requirement of faith. Faith is necessary for Christianity, and it can only be regarded in the absence of reason.

‘It is impossible for faith to be maintained rationally, because if a belief is rationally demonstrated, it ceases to be an article of faith.’

‘Only if ones beliefs are indefensible - and only if one wishes to retain these beliefs in spite of their indefensibility - is the appeal to faith necessary.’

Science is progressive, religion is not. We do not have have the scientific knowledge to find all the answers, but that is not to say that we never will. Currently, the most advanced theories postulate that the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion and collapse. I find it just as hard to believe in a God that just happens to exist.

Me thinks ppl should think for them selfs not let politics who cant run there own lives never mind ours do that for us, and those who believe in religous-cults like ‘christianity’ n ‘jewdism’, ‘jedi’ n ‘voodoo’ and the many more should stop worrying about going to hell and more on the reality that all of the religions teachings are bull and that if they think for them selfs with a ‘sane’ mind there lives will probibly be much better, back me up here athiest eh

"in fact I think it should be incouraged. " you said ben.
Do you not mean “Encouraged”?
he he he he. Oh if only shibu were here. i would chew you all out.

One of point of founding of US is a land free of religious prosecution. In my school, you allow to say prayer if you wish, but not require. All that is necessary is moment of silence for those who do wish it. And I can understand that. But If you want ENCOURAGE, then that mean that you will be PUNISH if you don’t, which whether that is part of you plan or not, WILL happen, and therefore if unconstitutional. All men (and women) is create equal, but as they say-Those who vote do not make decision, those who count vote is making the decision. Texas is in crap because of Rick Perry. And I don’t see what that has to do with but, move on with religion thing.

Let us think of this. Would you be piss off if they put “Under Allah” in pledge of allegiance? Well, muslim won’t, and maybe you do not, but maybe you parent will. Try turn table.
I was told “In god we trust” was not put on money until one of world war because US honored “separation of church and state”. ANd this is split decision for me as is pledge. I think it shouldn’t be like that, but people of other religion and atheist can’t just suck it up? they should not have care. It’s not that bad. -_-

But as for ten commandments, that is just wrong. Is just wrong yes yes? do no one agree? To be told to worship no other than “God” or else you suffer eternity in lake of fire? What in hell!?

ANd I thought about this too. God must be asshole (no offense to god) if they wrote bible on his direct word. I mean, For a minute 60 years or so of life, and if you just no think of him, then you go to hell forever? that is not nice. But then I think- maybe god is not logical as he should be.

Then I pass out. I only think of such thing because shibu tell me to. -_-

Point being, to do such thing as you say to encourage religion in school, specified of course, would go against very fabric of founding of US. But then, everything else US does goes against reason of founding, and many reason of founding not right either. -_- women no vote. That is not nice either. Racism. If you have problem with somebody, just say to they face.

Whoever agree or disagree, please site specifics because I am almost positive I contradict self several times.

But, what do I know?

Make the christians happy so we don’t have to listen to them complain.

Oh wait, I’m christian.

Yea. Make me happy so we don’t complain.

Hi Trung!