Does anyone here use the P(unishment)ILD method?

And if so, is it effective?

could you enlighten me on this method, i have never heard of it :eh:

From Lars’ Lucid Dreaming FAQ:

Source:
faqs.org/faqs/dreams-faq/lucid-dreaming-faq/

So now you see there is a method for everyone, even the masochist kind of people :grin:

:bored: maybe i’m just a wuss, but i don’t think you should torture yourself into doing anything, doesn’t this fall under the category of trying too hard?

Probably wouldn’t hurt to reward yourself when you succeed also.

I’ve heard of it but haven’t tried it (woulda fried my brains by now if i had)

The candy on my nightstand it getting stale, its almost a year old, I’m not 100% sure I can eat it and not die. It might be a better reward if I kept if fresh but I’m poor and if I eat it anyway to keep it from going bad it would defeat the point of having it as a reward.

Hehehe :happy:

No I don’t use PILD… umm sometimes I do if I have a nasty dry spell… but not now… It doesn’t really work too well.

I’d rather the rewarding system than punishing because your mind cannot see negative. If you try to tell yourself not to do something… you still see you do something as if you’re not saying “NOT.”

Our brain can’t see NOT or NO… when we’re saying something.

“Don’t see an elephant!” You still see an elephant even though I said DON’T! See my point?

Anyways, lieve dromen! (Sweet Dreams!)

youve also heard of this DM7?, i mian that your brain does not register “not”? i also heard of it but i dont know from where, its just one of those things you know, but you dont know from where or why.

as for PILD i thought of maybe try it, i mean why not?..the worse thing that could happen is that ill kill myslelf :smile:

Hey Dreamers,

I think this PILD method has a little chanche of succes. This is because you brain, rather your pysch cannot understand that it is being punished.

The mind works is a abstract way unpredictable and not reality based at all. (See the work of Freud). The Es, Freud discribed is a abstract part of the brain. For the Es, food is anything you can eat, from potatoes to horseshit, it doesn’t matter for the es, Food is Food. It’salso this Es part of the brain that is the main inducer of dreams.
Furthermore, the Es doesn’t know what right and wrong is, good or evil. Only the concious mind can understand such a thing. So it is unpossible to punish the mind itself for something. And if it were possible, it couldn’t be punished with electric shocks of a cold shower.

Greets,

Dutchthor

Besides my instincts telling me that this method is a bad idea for me, I have some arguements.

In the long run:
If you associate trying to have a lucid dream with punishment, you are much likely to abandon the whole practice of lucid dreaming because you get a feeling of dread whenever you think of it.

Also:
There are many situations that can lead to not having a lucid dream. Punishing yourself is like process of elimination with a near-infinite number of possibilities. Punishing yourself averts you from certain states of mind, but there are too many to eliminate, in other words. To reward yourself for an LD is to strengthen the limited spectrum of behavior that produces lucid dreams (except not quite, see below).

In reality I think that punishing yourself and rewarding yourself are only good because they have the possibility of motivating you. I don’t think that rewarding yourself helps b/c it rewards the state of mind resulting from the LD, not the state of mind that the LD resulted from. Same goes for punishing yourself.

AND the success of the punishment works on things that are actually done; like spanking the dog for peeing on the floor. The pain has to be associated with a behavior. You can’t punish yourself for something you didn’t do. This kind of training is Pavolian, stimulas/response. It’s subconscious and there must be an immediate connection between the behavior and the punishment. That’s why, if the dogs wets the floor at night, you can’t punish him in the morning; he can’t associate the behavior and pain. Make sense (I hope)? :happy:

That’s what I WAS trying to say! THat’s why I don’t think PILD can be successful except maybe RILD (Reward ILD) system is better. It works for me very well… try it. :smile: You might find it more effective than PILD by the way.

Good luck with your lucid journey!

Lieve Dromen (Sweet dreams!) :wiske:

i think PILD and RILD are based on the thing, do not forget that PILD is a recognised method and for some it DOES work.
i would say its similar to when you “punish” your kid when he made something very wrong (like raising your voise to him or maybe even tell him to go to his room…) or as said punish your pet…hmm did i just compare myself to a dog? oh well…

RILD is the most popular method ever. Every LDer practices it, because the greatest reward thinkable is the LD itself :content: .

Hey DM7,

I disagree. The RILD has got the same problem as the PILD, it is not abstract enough for the mind to understand that it is being rewarded. The mind can do lots of things, but the part of the mind that enables you to think about this and write on this forum isn’t the part of your mind that you want to punish.

Greets,

Thor

I looked at that site, it looked to me like a lot of those techniques were made up on the spot. Like, putting ILD after each letter of the Alphabet and comming up with a technique to go with it. I don’t think many of them have actually been tested.
Plus, thats the only site I’ve ever seen those on. If they were truely aknowledged techniques I think they’d be turning up around the web a little more than they are.
Some might work pretty well, but it just seems a bit weird to me, all those ILDs.

Finally someone with a common sense explanation :tongue:

Darn common sense. I was having fun tearing it apart… :cool_laugh:

Hey,

Whahaha, it was sure fun to examine it. BUt I guess we all learned from it…

Greets,

Thor

So I’m a party pooper I guess. :shy: