Are we pioneers of the next Evolutionary leap?

I like where this is going. What I’m about to post doesn’t fit in perfect here, but I thought it was worth posting. It’s a little over some people’s heads, but new ideas always are. I thought this would be a nice addition. I found this on a tool page here

innuendocornecopria.com/tool_definitions.htm

Fourty-Six and Two = According to Melchezedek, our planet is covered with geometrically constructed ‘morpho genetic grids’. These grids extend from about 60 feet under the Earth’s surface to about 60 miles above the Earth, arranged in geometric patterns. Each species has its own grid, which supports life, and connects the consciousness of its particular species. Before any species can come into existance or make an evolutionary step, a new grid must be completed. When a species becomes extinct, that particular species’ grid dissoves. A new grid was completed in 1989 - the ‘christ-consciousness’ grid. This grid will allow humans to evolve into our next version. We’ll develop two additional chromosomes (which are really ‘geometrical images’ designed to resonate with our specific grid) for a total or 46 + 2. The main change will be a shift to the “unity consciousness”. Every cell in your body has its own consciousness and memory. You, the higher being that occupies your body, make the millions of different consciousnesses in your body work together as one being. How does this relate to this grid? Think of yourself as a cell and the grid as the higher being. We will still have individual consciousness, but will be united in the form of a higher being in order to work as one entity." Scientifically speaking, humans don’t appear to be evolving new chromosomes (or much of anything else; thanks to technology).

I also had a friend recently tell me about a book I should read. I haven’t had the chance yet but plan to soon. It’s called “The Celestine Prophecy” and he said it is describing what our next evolutionary step is and where were leading ourselves. I think he said it had steps to it as well. Don’t know for sure though so don’t quote me on it. Has anyone here read it? If not, and if anyone does, be sure to let me (us) know. If I read it anytime soon I will definately let you guys know, but right now I’m reading Stephen King.

I’ve read it and a few other metaphysics books. It’s utter crap. In my opinion that is. I’m sorry I don’t have much else to add to this direction…

I don’t know that we are pioneering the next step of human evolution… as these things don’t happen that quickly. It may be that conscious subconscious communication will be normal within the next few hundred years. But lucid dreaming is just the beginning of that, not the next step.

Yeah, that seems a bit far-fetched really. although I couldn’t really give a fair opinion until I’ve read more about it. Although to be honest, I really can’t be bothered.

If you look back in history to different cultures, there has always been a small percentage who are into meditation, dreams, etc. And I don’t really think that that percentage changes from culture to culture, or age to age. I think that lucid dreaming is just another form that this interest in dreams has taken, but there have always been people like us. Not necessarily lucid dreamers, but shamens who predict the future with their dreams or whatever. So I don’t think that dreams are like the next point in evolution or anything as dramatic as that, otherwise the evolution would’ve already occurred.

I think that the % changes greatly from time to time and between cultures.
But i don’t think it is much of an evolutionary step. It could be a slight one though.
First for it to be evolution the LDers have to have something that gives us an edge over others as mates for reproduction. This quality that it gives us could be relaxation and a better state of mind in the waking life, but it could also make us less desirable with all those weird RCs. It could be good in the fact that we could teach possible mates how to do it and they will like it so much that they would not leave you.
I think on the whole it is a slight advantage, which means that it will be an evolutionary thing. But only if LDing changes our brain or if some people have a natural advantage over others to LD (i.e. if not everyone has the same skill in LDing) So i think that this natural ability will increase in generations but as with all evolution it will take a very long time (especially considering some of the people that have children together).

I think that it hasn’t really begun to sweep the world yet. It may have, but i doubt that the other 99% of the world actually know about LDing.

I mostly agree with you alex :smile:

Anyone into Ken Wilber? To me he’s a truly brilliant philosopher. He only uses the most basic principles of our society and of the universe. Principles which everyone would accept. Starting from these principles, he reconstructs a remarkably clear image of the evolution of the universe in general (with a closer look at this planet and humankind). Everything is described in the most general way. In doing this he uses the basic elements from every possible culture on Earth. He also gives his view of the possible future of humanity.
Some books I can recommend:

“The Spectrum Of Consciousness”
“Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit Of Evolution”
“A Brief History Of Everything”

I totally agree with you there. I’m a believer that anything that can be done with the use of a substance, can be induced with concentration is sober state. I don’t believe in “flash backs” I believe in “Learned behavior”.

However, concentration is difficult, and not total. While in lucid dreams we have a near complete seperation from the external world and therefore have the ability to utilize our minds fully.
Thus I believe lucid dreams will be the grounds for the most intense states of perception, and intellectual discovery.

Also that book, “The Celestine Prophecy”, my friend recommended it to me… I haven’t read it yet, but I’ll make sure to now…

  • feed_my_BRAIN

Of course, it also needs to be something which can be passed on genetically. Or as a meme, which would make it a different kind of evolution completely.

Suppose I should elaborate.

This is the age of IT, information technology. The internet alone has brought about a wealth of information, and enabled us to get the word about LD’ing out faster and to a wider audience than before.

I’m working on a large time-scale, and what I’m intending to portray is: are we attempting something that will eventually become something that’s 2nd nature to the ‘future-human’? Much like the Cavemen grunted and waved their arms which led to, eventually, full speech.

Ego tripping, what you’re saying about lucid dreaming and psychedelic (drug) experience i too have also thought about alot. (I have even thought about writing a movie script about this kind of thing) It does seem that these experiences are gateways into higher ways of thinking and perceiving ourselves, life and the world around us when in our normal sobered waking state. After experiencing lucid dreaming and chemically altered states of consciousness, I do feel little bit wiser and more aware of the metaphysical and spiritual. A lot of the stuff I have trouble putting into words, they are intangible things which must be experienced and cannot be communicated fully.

To answer your question I do think that we’re pioneering the next stage of evolution. But I look at so many other people in the world and see that they are blind to anything that is above the material, and when presented with it, they take it to be nonsense. How many times have you told somebody about lucid dreaming and they looked at you like you were crazy? They simply deny or don’t acknowledge the existence of anything that can’t be explained within physical parameters. This scares me because it makes me think that we will never reach that next stage of evolution.

Lding itself might be not evolutionary step.But the topics it covers have great chance to do so- i mean tk,mind reading,shared dreaming etc-all stuff that is connected and once known better and suited to “everyday” person possibilities will be a breakthrough.
I believe that our next step as humans will be subcounciousness one.We will learn how to use it and we will find the methods to “give it” to oridinary people.And this will change everything-hopefully towards more love and understanding.
In that way i believe lding will be responsibile for our evolutionary step.If not that im sure lders will be first ppl to know and use it:)
take care

This is a very interesting topic, but there are a number of different points to address. Are you talking about special evolution, or social? At the moment, almost everyone can LD. It’s not a special ability granted to a rare few of us as the next evolutionary feature, it’s just something that isn’t taught to many people. However, with society becoming evermore open-minded to the ‘new-age’ way of life (meditation isn’t unheard of among average businessmen anymore) it’s possible we could be moving towards a time when people are taught how to take advantage of their subconscious mind from a young age.

If you’re talking about genetic evolution, then you have to consider whether or not lucid dreaming would actually be an advantage in securing a mate and reproducing. Evolution isn’t just a matter of “What new feature should we add today?”. It’s an unguided process of “If it works, we’ll see more of it.” Also, would strengthening our ability to lucid dream negatively affect any of our other survival instincts? What if we become less cautious about distractions and interference while sleeping, and subsequently fail to avoid an attacking predator, or a nearby distress call?

“Evolution isn’t just a matter of “What new feature should we add today?”. It’s an unguided process of “If it works, we’ll see more of it.””

Thats the best evolution explanation ive ever heard:)Excellent:)

Many, many times. It’s a sad fact that people really don’t believe in these kinds of things. My boss at work who is a christian has the idea in her head that we shouldn’t be messing around with these things. As Athiest said in another post… If there is a god, shy would he give us the ability to do so if he didn’t want us to use it? It wasn’t in those exact words, but you get the idea…

What does being a Christian have to do with anything? I am a Christian and I’m open to all kinds of experiences including other religion’s ideas. I will admit that a lot of Christians are very closed minded when it comes to this kind of thing I think this is just a result of being brainwashed. It all comes down to just knowing in your heart whether something is right or wrong, not being told by anyone else. I think God wants us to experience a lot of things in this world. He’ll let us know when we’ve gone too far.

God gave humans the ability to kill each other, but that doesn’t mean he thinks that it’s OK for us to do so. Your Boss should not pass judgment on things that she does not know anything about or has never experienced. Tell her that some people naturally lucid dream and never have to try. Tell her she should read the book, the sun and the shadow: my experiment with lucid dreaming by Kenneth Kelzer. It was written by a very Christian man and it’s about how he used lucid dreaming to get closer to God and more in touch with his spirituality.

I understand what you mean. But you speak as if you understand Evolution completely, but nobody is entirely sure how it works. I use to accept that it’s unguided as well, but Evolution contradicts itself it seems. Entropy alone causes Evolution’s chaos-methods to break down horribly. If Evolution is true, I doubt it’s a random process without guidance. If that was the case, we would be becoming less and less complex it seems.

LD’ing and the afformetioned methods of reaching that “next level” could be our “7th sense” so to speak. I don’t mean we’ll spend all our lives in a dream state, but rather using both sides of reality to progress. I don’t mean LD’ing itself is the next evolutionary step, but rather a direction of where to step in the first place. It’s a grand theory, and drawn out over a long period of time. I feel LD’ing could be scraping the tip of the iceberg of what our minds can achieve.

But that’s just me.

You’re right, it was careless to state that evolution is unguided. What I meant, was that evolution was not consciously guided. It’s also very far from random.

People seem to often overlook the fundamental rule of evolution. Each new change or mutation might seem random, and may or may not prove to assist the original design. If a change provides an advantage for that species, that advantage itself will ultimately be responsible for helping the modified creature reproduce, not because it was the current “Mutation of the Month” among peers.

Changes that hinder a creature will generally see to it’s early grave, whereas a different ‘random’ change might actually help. Over time, the advantages build up and we’re left with what we have today. Disadvantages (by definition) make it harder for the organism to pass on these disadvantaged traits, so naturally, the mutation is removed from the pool.

To simplify everything into a single sentence: If it helps us reproduce, it’ll be incorporated into the species.

This means we won’t necessarily evolve to be any larger, or smarter. If we were any larger we’d suffer all kinds of disadvantages, like taking much more damage from falling over, or requiring more food to survive. I also don’t see the human race becoming any smarter, due to the thouroughly overwhelming number of less-than-intelligent people reproducing in comparrison.

Evolution isn’t about what’s better, it’s about what has less trouble reproducing. The Next Stage Of Evolution will involve something that removes even more of the social barricades preventing people from multiplying at their potential rate - which undoubtedly will not take the form of additional intelligence.

I don’t try to talk to my boss about anything like that. For one thing, I’m not christian, and another, she wouldn’t listen. She is one of those kinds of people who are set in her ways and won’t listen to reason. I even tried explaining to her how it could benefit her by possible bringing her closer to god but she still insisted it was a bad subject to approach. Oh well. She doesn’t know what she is missing out on.

How is it not conciously guided? What guides it? Everything you speak of relates to a rule, a law, if you will. Who/what set these laws? If I run a red light, I get a ticket. Why? It’s against the law. Who set the law? A higher entity of power (Government).

My other gripe lately with the standard Evolutionary model is it discounts the idea that information is only lost in a species over time. I understand the need for survival, but somehow all spieces on Earth have become more and more complex (especially when you trace it all to the ultimate root: a single celled organism), with no reason. We’re no better off now than we were in the Caveman days or before. In fact, it seems were worse off, since we can exterminate life much easier.

This is a bit off topic, but I’m curious to see your standpoint. Does your screen name reflect your belief? I used to be Athiest until I realized how horribly contradictory it is. Athiesm means you firmly believe and KNOW there is no God…but if that’s the case, then the Athiest knows everything there is to know in existance to claim that, hence, he/she IS God…

It’s not consciously guided in the same way a landslide isn’t consciously guided. If it works, it works. If it has somewhere to go, and the right conditions are met, it’ll go there. Evolution didn’t have someone designing each mutation, then testing the results to determine if that change should be made universal - it’s just a process of change and adaptation that occurs (for lack of a better word) at random.

Now, while the individual changes are random (some helpful, others detrimental), the key factor is that they work themselves out. You don’t need some almighty being watching everything from the sideline and judging what change should be left in, and what should be discarded… it happens automatically! If a change helps something reproduce, it will do so, and that change (part of that creature’s DNA) will be spread to its young, who in turn will be all fantastic at finding and having sex due to their parent’s gift. BAM! That gift spreads so fast that all who don’t have it can’t compete, and they crease spreading their old-fashioned genes into the new generations.

(I’m getting a little direct for my usual style, which means it’s just about time to go home.)

That’s what I mean when I say nothing consciously guided the evolutionary process. By definition, Evolution is a contained system that doesn’t require guidance.

Anyway, I am indeed an Atheist, but I think your definition isn’t entirely accurate. Being an Atheist doesn’t necessarily mean you pretend you ‘know’ that God doesn’t exist, just that you honestly believe it. We’ve been able to form the opinion that it’s simply not required that there is, or was ever a governing Deity. It’s fair to say that we don’t know for sure, but that’s valid in the case of any religion. Nobody does know, after all.

I wanted to be a little more elaborate, but it’s 5pm and I just can’t bring myself to work back in the afternoon. :wink:

Feel free to ask more questions.

I think Atheist is right, but since we have become conscious of the fact that evolution exists we can now consciously control it. If there is say a genetic predisposition for people having blue eyes if their parents have blue eyes then i could go round killing everyone with blue eyes and having children with those people who don’t, thereby making the human race evolve so that we don’t have blue eyes.
I guess the ability to LD might also mean that it is more likely that we at some stage in our life consider reality to be a dream even for only a second, so we might do something silly that gets us killed. I think this is probably a difficult thing to work out if it is advantagous. But think about it if we all got together to reproduce we could have many many children to overrun the world with LDers!