I already experienced dream-mushrooms, but not the WL ones.
It was a pretty strong experience, but more like an insane dream, not like a “real trip” (as I imagine a trip to be from talking with other people about it).
However, I think there are drugs you only stimulate your body chemical production, perhaps a dream could do the same. So, I think a trip in a dream might be possible. That wouldn´t be a lot safer than a WL trip, though.
tapir
Anything is possible in a dream, you all know that. If you were good at lucid dreaming and have had mushrooms in real life before, you could have a trip identical to one in waking life, and then make it more or less intense, whatever you desire. Your imagination is the limit
im expectng to take shrooms once this year, and only once forever. But i want to experience them in a LD first, then try the real stuff, see how it compares 
I don’t think that you “taking” a pyschodelic in your dream would have to change your brain’s chemicals to make you feel like your tripping. Your dream would just alter to make it seem like you are tripping. Your brain can’t make the actual chemicals to make you trip in enough quantity(If it can make all the ones needed anyway).
I believe that the effects of any any substance can be produced in sober state with the right amount of concentration and experience.
I also believe that Lucid dreams are the most intense state of mind achievable. Certain substances may play around with the chemicals in your body, but none the less, they are still your chemicals. Nothing new is added. If you can work to rewire your brain, you may be able to summon the same effects by mere concentration.
Two things to ask you:
Wouldn’t it be amazing if the only thing these illegal drugs did was increase your patience?
Are you sure thats not the case?
A lot of effects can certainly be attributed to the increase in awareness alone. Lucid Dreaming is a similar state. While you may lucid dream an enviroment that is very similar to one you would see in normal life, in the dream you would pay much more attention, because you know it is a dream. In normal life you would just ignore it.
(Added)
I just reread your post. If I can make the walls move without injesting a psychedelic, is that not tripping?
Interesting. It seems to me much of the things that happen in a non-sober state can simply be a matter of awareness. Inconsistencies are abound in our daily lives, and in a sober state we generally ignore them. But with the use of substances, we classify things differently… almost to make them seem insignifigant.
What is the difference between tripping, and just thinking you’re tripping?
Since tripping is merely the process of alternate perceptional interpretation, I would believe there is none.
I don´t think so. Ok, perhaps not exactly psylocibin, but I am sure your brain can produce similiar substances in quantities that would make it seem similiar or even stronger.
Think of DMT, this is a very strong psychoactive substance found in different plants, but also in the human body. I am sure you can produces amounts of DMT that would make you trip, you just usually don´t.
LDing might be a technique to stimulate the production of these substances (of course there are also other techniques such as dancing, breathing, meditation…).
Seen from the scientific point of view, I don´t think that it´d be possible to experience something really triplike in a LD without stimulating the production of substances as above. Of course you can get “optics” and stuff that looks like you are tripping, but the feelings depend on your body-chemistry.
Again, this only applies when you consider the mind to be a product of the body.
Too much theory, we need someone to try it 
tapir
PS: I think it´s rather unlikely that mind is a product of the body, but all other models I can come up with don´t seem to be very practical 
I would not believe that the same amounts of chemicals would be necessary to produce the effects we are talking about. The brain is very sensitive during sleep, and I believe it would merely require concentration to produce certain effects. Keep in mind that any drug is merely toying with the balance of chemicals that already exist inside your system. They simply make the effects of those chemicals very very obvious. I’ll call this the “Highlighter” effect. Its like reading a page from a book, you may read that page many times, but until someone highlights a certain passage, you may not truely understand it. So say we are given the right chemical dosage every day to use towards tripping, however, we simply haven’t figured out how to do it yet.
Ugh, I’m feeling rather dazed right now, and am not writing well.
Basically, If we already have these skills available to us, and these drugs are just pointing them out, that means we already have enough chemicals in order to do these things, and so it is simply a matter of knowing what to look for.
Does anyone want to know the secret? Its so simple that no one even bothers to try it: STARE. KEEP STARING.
Heh, this can turn out to be a pretty mindblowing topic, i’ve always thought of inducing drug effects with just your mind (mind over matter baby!). I’ll start staring after im done writing this, but i think the hallucinations is just my eyes going out of focus.
Lucian, you should do them in real life first, because in your dream your brain has no idea what it would be like. No one does unless you’ve done them before, very intense!
MTKer i know it wont make the chemicals, i jsut want to compare the differences, on how far away my dream was from the real experience
Not necessarily so. I personally believe that if you read up enough, you can reproduce most of the affects of some drugs without ever having done them. However, this is a little difficult, and yes, without ever doing the substance, you’ll never know if you got it right.
I think if you keep in mind that psychedelics are not just visual… they also deal with that particularly illusive 4th demention. And it can’t be summed up with saying “4 hours went by in 4 minutes”. Its very abstract, and when you finally can explain it, no one will be able to take you seriously.
Except maybe a lucid dreamer…
This is an interesting idea. Some psychedelic substances, especially those in their natural state, contain alkaloids that make the trip unique to that of one induced by just a pure active chemical.
Take an acid flashback for example, nothing is ingested, but the mind goes back to that altered state. Is there a chemical change in the brain when this occurs? I have experienced this very mildly (nowhere close to the intensity of the real thing) but from what I’ve heard it can be pretty intense. But a trip is a full six to 12 hour journey filled with different stages and it takes that span of time to have the full experience. Maybe some of the feelings and sights can be re-created by concentrating or by dreaming. But Its hard to think that the full and same experience can be.
I have a theory that I truely honestly believe in:
Theres no such this as a flashback. This is learned behavior we are talking about. When the brain learns to think a different way, certain settings and states of mind can bring about the same abilities that were supposed to only be reserved for non-sober life. The reason science can’t figure out why flashbacks happen is because they are busy investigating the issue of drugs as an anomoly in normal life. However, just like all experiences, it should not surprise us that we can learn things from substance use, even abilities that we had not had before. Similarly, just as there is more than one way to learn any task, drugs are not a REQUIREMENT of so called “flashbacks”. In my opinion, having a flashback before ever taking one of these substances, makes the word a complete oxymoron.
I know this because I first “tripped” while sitting in a library, completely sober (Never taking a psychedelic either then or before), staring at the floor pattern. When it started moving, it was an intensely surprising experience! 
Also, I agree, your mind is not going to be able to do 8 hour trip on its own. Also, At all times you would have the ability to stop tripping. Total control.
Yes, it definately is possible to “learn to be tripping”.
I can intentionally put myself in a state of mind that is quite similiar to a light weed-feeling. This is basically what I do when I practice LL , but then I don´t imagine to have smoked weed, but to be dreaming.
Placebo effect is also interesting here:
I once ate a marihuana cake. You usually got to wait at least 30 minutes to feel any effect, usually longer (more like one hour).
After only 15 minutes I felt the first effects. I was quite sure that it got to be a placebo. However, after concentrating on it they got stronger, and after some minutes I was truly convinced to be experiencing the first effects. However, they wore off some time after and started again at the expected time.
So, it really was placebo, but it was very convincing despite the fact that I knew cannabis can´t take effect that fast.
tapir
I can relate to that, sometimes when i only have a bit of weed left, i smoke it and pretend to be higher, completely exaggerating the little buzz that i have
A different way of thinking of it is this:
Being “high” is a feeling, not an tangable artifact. Thus, feeling high, and being high are the same… the only difference is how you got there.
The same thing applys with dreams. The things we experience in dreams are as real as in external reality, the only difference being how you got there.
What you’re describing is pretty good evidence of how the brain, and not the external stimulus is responsible for much of your state of mind. A good classical conditioning experiment would be every time you smoke, listen to the same song. Then one day, just listen to the song and see if it makes you high.
Yes, also have done this mrvanhelen
@feed my brain
Can only agree here.
Btw, there is a strange background-melody when the shortnews are on my favourite radio channel. I usually don´t listen to the radio, but I did after smoking weed. Now, when I hear the news on this channel it always changes my perception a bit. It´s like a trigger for LL.
A while again I had a similiar thing with tea:
Whenever I drink spicy and hot tea, it would instantly put me into a high/dreamy state of mind for some time. Had something to do with the sensation of hot water running through my body.
Now I got quite used to it, but when I concentrate on itI can still use it as a help with LL
I don´t know when it started, but I think this isn´t conditioned from times when I was high, it´s just the strangeness of the feeling
tapir
I saw alittle thing about flashbacks, i want to discuss this, do these Psychedelics cause flashbacks? I knew that was one of the things i had accept when i ingested it. Now over the years i look back on myself, i notice hallucinations that dont exist, like i would look in the corner of my eye and think something was there, then i would look again and it would disappear. Now that is what i consider a flash back, like a false vision.
Now i want to know has anyone fell into a longer or different type of situation?
I want to ask an honest question now, if you had took any type of Psychedelics (like mushrooms, mescaline, peyote, acid, i think you have the idea) do you think your brain is the same before you ingested these things? or different?
Now if think its different, are you happy with the way you see things today? or do you regret the things you done in the past?
If you think you’ve changed from this, how? ( i’ll give my point)
hubbs:
I don’t think your brain is changed in any way, but tripping is a traumatic experience. Just like any traumatic experience, it can cause flashbacks. People were in wars, almost die, are abused as children, are raped, or have any other traumatic experience can have flashbacks.
My flashbacks situations involved just getting that insane feeling that accompanies tripping, but not to the extent of the real thing, increased perception of colors, spaces, and objects. And also sometimes seeing things in my peripheral vision like you mentioned.
Physically and chemically I don’t think they’re permanent changes in the brain according to my reading. But I am happy with the way I see things after having these experiences. I feel I have more focus now on what and who is important in life. I have a greater appreciation for the beauty of nature, in other words, I can never look at the sky, the trees, the ocean, a sunset etc. the same way that I did before. Once, while tripping I had an intense spiritual experience and ever since then I have felt much more sure about the presence of God. This has also made me more aware of what I’m doing morally in life. I also see reality differently now, I feel like I now know what it really is, which was very scary to me when I first realized this but I am kind of glad that I know now (but I still don’t think I know the TRUE nature of reality, I just kind of have a different perspective on it now). I also learned that humans minds are much more complicated and deep than I thought before. To answer your question I definitely think that I changed from this.
TheSeeker:
i was thinking do u think that we can experiance those things that u listed thrue dreams?
i feel that taking hullucnigins do give u a different perspective of this reality… which i think that maybe you cant get thrue dreaming… but it is also visa versa…
but i guess they are an like instant new perspective in a substance that we induce… our minds are very powerfull to do this without the need to take a substance
i guess i would like to try while lucid… i guess you wouldnt have to wait till u were peaking… i guess i am also lazy.
mmm i wonder what the possibilities could be…
interesting subject
Yes, but how can you have a “flashback” without ever doing a psychedelic?
I believe what are you describing is “awareness”. Our perceptions have many aspects that we ignore on a regular basis. The reason we ignore them is because they are not deemed useful to basic life skills.
For example, without psychedelics I discovered something I have since called “The Static”. It is a layer that is slightly superimposed over our visual perception and we ignore it on a regular basis. However, with concentration you can learn to see it. The reason I bring this up, is because one time on one of those websites that document experiences with LSD and such, one person was discussing what they perceived to be long term use of LSD. They began to see, on a regular basis, something they refered to as “the acid rainbow” (Most likely “the static”). The said that over time of not using LSD they managed to “teach themselves to ignore it”.
From my view, this is a humorous way of looking at it. What they were seeing is something that was always there! By ignoring it they are doing the exact same thing they were doing before! 
I understand how the myth of the flashback has gotten so great if people are willing to attribute it to awareness of flaws in perception. These flaws exist everywhere. Haven’t you ever heard your voice being called in crowded room, when you know no one you know is there? Or, you see something out of the corner of your eye, but when you look nothing is there? (hubbs) These are things that happen to us on a regular basis, and normally we ignore them so thoroughly(conciously and unconciously) that we FORGET THEY ACTUALLY HAPPEN.
So really I have two conclusions here:
By the way, the brain IS CHANGED physically through use of pychedelics, just as it is PHYSICALLY changed through normal conversation and experience. I know this is a weird way to think about it, but this is how my psyche teacher told me it works. Everything physically changes your brain, the question people mean ususally is do these drugs damage your brain. The answer is: they do not.