Santa DOES EXIST!!!

mystic · December 20, 2003, 10:49pm

Yeah actually there’s a famous scientific proof of Santa’s non-existence:

No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000
species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of
these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out
flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

There are 2 billion children (persons under 18 ) in the world.
BUT since Santa doesn’t (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish
and Buddhist cihldren, that reduces the workload to to 15% of the
total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an
average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that’s 91.8
million homes. One presumes there’s at least one good child in each.

Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the
different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
travels east to west (which seemes logical). This works out to
822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian
household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to
park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the
stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat
whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back
into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of
these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth
(which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our
calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per
household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops
to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus
feeding and etc.

This means that Santa’s sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second,
3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the
fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves
at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run,
tops, 15 miles per hour.

The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element.
Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego
set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting
Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land,
conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even
granting that “flying reindeer” (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES
the normal anount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine.
We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even
counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for
comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

353,000 tons travelling at 650 miles per second creates
enourmous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same
fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth’s atmosphere. The lead
pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per
second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost
instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create
deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be
vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile,
will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than
gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be
pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he’s
dead now.

GrandpaDEATH · December 21, 2003, 5:15am

Blah, Mystic beat me to it.
Daammnn yyoouu

Anyway, we all know that the Hogfather exists, not Santa.

Technodreamer · December 21, 2003, 9:24am

I’ve got a older version. The older one sounds better.

Ofcourse anata exists, his children are located around the world, and they work simular to how the postal service works. They use master keys to get into peoples houses, and takes a grim reeper to kill anybody who sees him.

Qu · December 21, 2003, 11:57am

yes, and we even know that you, grandpadeath has even filled in for him when he was unavailable

Monitor199a · December 21, 2003, 7:46pm

Santa murders all the witnesses? Sounds like a mob Santa.

garebear · December 22, 2003, 3:56am

haha i liked reading about how the raindeer would instantaneously vaporize. sumin about the mental image of seeing santa tryin to pull this off for the first time just seems funny. Realisticly its impossible but u forgot one key element. MAGIC hahahaha ehhh…*sigh nevermind.

_Darkness_Myth · December 22, 2003, 6:22am

actually it’s a common misconception that we cannot travel at the speed of light or faster. We can.

here’s a little excerpt from K-PAX a good film staring Kevin Spacey, worth watching.

while a film is not scientific basis for proving that Santa may exsist, it is correct in what it says about light/faster than light travel. No one actually said that Santa accelerates to the speed of light, for all we know he naturally travels at such a speed and thus would not be ripped appart. you see the above ‘proof’ assumes that Santa has to accelerate to such speeds.

Either way whether you believe that santa exsists or not, it is fact that at one time he DID exsist which is good enough for me.

alex · December 22, 2003, 9:00am

i think even considering that point, which i think is true, the frictional forces would be enough to kill him moving at those kinds of speeds. And by the way if santa naturally travels at that speed, how did that come about? When he was born did he just get shot out at that speed?

And i assume that the last point is referring to a non-magical santa that doesn’t travel around the world. Right?

Technodreamer · December 22, 2003, 2:23pm

What about a species of riendeer that are able to warp the 3 dimensional space around them, and around santa. Thus the glowing of the nose on Rudolf.

But he would be dead by starving, or hitting an object at over the speed of light. What about the umbilical cord?

I worked out that he wouldn’t suffer pain before death. The acceleration forces would put him in to an uncontious state known as G lock within the first 5 millionth of a second, and thats if he’s lucky.

_Darkness_Myth · December 22, 2003, 7:19pm

your assuming again that he was born and not created. If of course the reindeer did have the ability to bend/warp the limited dimentions of space/time that we understand then santa could indeed do his job traveling at normal speeds.

mystic · December 22, 2003, 7:43pm

Wouldn’t that create a fluctuation in the fine-structure of spacetime, which may ultimately result in a fatal rip in the spacetime continuum, thus creating giant black holes which would mean the extinction of the human race? I think those reindeers are a very dangerous species…

Technodreamer · December 22, 2003, 8:08pm

I’m unfamilar with this idea, please explain it.

Well currently, besides cloning, there is no technology to create a being. If sutch a device did exist, it certianly wouldn’t be used to created a fat santa, and santa would be more designed for his job, i.e, warping spacetime himself. Sureley the “warping” gene could easly be implemented into him.

As far as I know, cloning isn’t done while going at the speed of light.

mystic · December 22, 2003, 8:28pm

Well, if those reindeers are able to warp the 3D spacetime around them, then they’re in fact curving up the spacetime structure infinitely. It’s like when a heavy star collapses: due to the enormous concentration of mass in one point, space and time are curved up infinitely in an infinitely small area, thus creating fluctuations in the spacetime structure which steadily become bigger until a crack in the spacetime structure appears, which then results in a black hole.

Technodreamer · December 22, 2003, 9:10pm

I though black holes were a result of gravitational forces (warp fields maybe). What if it were possible to normalize the gravitational balance afterwards. By using oposing gravitational forces.

But what about having this idea. Santa gets into a box, which is in another elongated box. (to the left far side) Now if the outer box accelerates at 650 m.p.h in a left direction (for an acceleartion duration of 0.001 seconds) then the inner box has to accelerate 650 m.p.h to the right direction for 0.001 seconds. Thus santa would feel no force what so ever (exept mabye as he goes upwards not so fast). He wouldn’t be limited to 650 m.p.h. If he managed to get a plentiful power source, he could go as fast as he wants, until air resistances cooked him inside his boxes (in which you would have liquid nitorgen in between them to prevent this.)

garebear · December 23, 2003, 3:00am

huh? i think thats only if theres no friction in between the boxes and the inner box moving to the “right” at that speed would be in relation to the box thats moving left so hed really just be sitting still with a box sliding past him really fast. in order for him to have any motion thered have to be friction between the boxes but such a contraption would be seen by all and santas secret would be out and hed have to quit his job because hed be nagged by every1 for free stuff.

mystic · December 23, 2003, 12:42pm

Black holes are indeed the result of a gravitational collapse caused by the collapse of the heavy star, concentrating its mass in one single point. The gravitational ripples become so extreme when one approaches the black hole, and at the exact center they’re even infinitely strong. How would you be able to balance an infinitely strong gravitational field?

Technodreamer · December 23, 2003, 1:12pm

Well you are sure not to cause sutch a strong graviational field that it causes an infantley strong balck hole. Don’t compress to mutch space at once, so you don’t cause huge ripples in spacetime.

What says gravity works in sutch a way. Could gravity be the result of a spinning body and magnetic fields? If so, I can’t think how that would work, however, most of our scientific tests are done on earth, maybe forces behave differently without spinning magnetic fields in their presents, its simply not been tested on anought.

Anyway, santa DOES EXIST, and that’s that!

karl · December 23, 2003, 7:06pm

mystic wrote:

No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000
species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of
these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out
flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

There are 2 billion children (persons under 18 ) in the world.
BUT since Santa doesn’t (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish
and Buddhist cihldren, that reduces the workload to to 15% of the
total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an
average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that’s 91.8
million homes. One presumes there’s at least one good child in each.

Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the
different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
travels east to west (which seemes logical). This works out to
822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian
household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to
park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the
stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat
whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back
into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of
these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth
(which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our
calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per
household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops
to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus
feeding and etc.

This means that Santa’s sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second,
3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the
fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves
at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run,
tops, 15 miles per hour.

The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element.
Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego
set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting
Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land,
conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even
granting that “flying reindeer” (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES
the normal anount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine.
We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even
counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for
comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

353,000 tons travelling at 650 miles per second creates
enourmous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same
fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth’s atmosphere. The lead
pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per
second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost
instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create
deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be
vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile,
will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than
gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be
pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he’s
dead now.

mystic you are forgetting something
the faster you go the mre time slows.
so if you were going 650 miles per second you go 1,046.0736 kilometers per second so now we apply the time dialation formula right? good… 1046.0736kps divide by the speed of light(300000kps) = 0.003486912 square it 0.000012158555295744 subtract from 1 0.999987841444704256 take away the square root(sqrt= 0.99999392070387320730138164642204)=-0.000006079259168951301381646422 convert to posotive=0.000006079259168951301381646422 tada! time goes slower inside the sleigh infact for every second outside the sleigh there is only 0.000006079259168951301381646422 seconds inside the sleigh so it makes the time slower so less time to deliver presents instead of 31 hours it will be 30.9781146669917753150260728808 hours so that means instead of 111600 seconds it will be only 111521.21280117039113409386240688 seconds to deliver presents

how do you like those apples eh?
and thats why my iq is what it is
impressive eh?
beat that mystic
ok ok i wont rub it in too much
goodbye brain shuts down after too much work

karl · December 23, 2003, 7:26pm

insane goth wrote: Mark:
What if I were to tell you that according to a man who lived on our planet, named Einstein, that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light?

Prot:
I would say that you misread Einstein, Dr. Powell. May I call you Mark? You see Mark, what Einstein actually said was that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light because its mass would become infinite. Einstein said nothing about entities already traveling at the speed of light or faster.

right you are insane goth now my chance to explain fully
according to E=mc2 (the big daddy of all formulas) energy and mass are related they can change into eachother eg if you had two pendulums on a stand they were both identical in every way size weight whatever exept for one was swinging the one that was swinging would weigh slightly more than the stationary one because of the kinetic energy in the swinging and energy being slightly mass so energy has weight so when things go nearer the speed of light they gain more weight and if something was going the speed of light it would have infinite density and would need infinite energy to keep it going mystic said about the raindeers makin black holes well sort of becos they go faster they gain weight and they gravitate more but not enough to make black holes if they did they would be sucked in on themselves thus ripping a hole in the time space continuum making a singularity and anything hittin that singularity would be totally obliterated

sorry for being so sciency but when i saw mystics post i just couldn’t help competing with her you see i’m a very competetive person especially when it comes to showing off your knowledge

mystic · December 23, 2003, 7:29pm

Yes well if you really want to do some nitpicking, you also had to take into account the other relativistic effects due to the high speeds:

the mass of an object increases with increasing speed and becomes infinitely high at the speed of light.
the length contraction of an object travelling at high speeds.

Thén we may ask ourselves: will Santa die from instant vaporization, extreme obesity or inverse spaghettification? Can you work this out as well in your calculations?