Ego Tripping, your view makes more sence to me than the christian view, but i also have a problem with the statement that I can’t look at the beauty and intricacy of this world and say there isn’t a God. Why because when i look at the world half of it is the opposite of what you said. And i think that the world is the way it is because there is no other way it would exist. It is like saying look at that bed and wow you can sleep in it!, but you are forgetting that it wouldn’t be a bed if you couldn’t sleep in it. This is a strange analogy though so don’t worry if you don’t know what i mean. I think i read about this sort of thing in ‘a brief history of time’ by Stephen Hawking or it could have been something else he wrote. But don’t you think it is possible for a world to evolve like this without the presence of a God? Unless your idea of a God is so abstract that it is just a word for what i call the laws of the universe.
killaklown you make some good points also, and i think we all write more than we would say when we are off the keyboard.
As I said, many. I’m glad to see that you’re one of the few who believe what you believe because it truly makes you happy and not out of fear. That’s good. But of course you can have love without god. I don’t really know anymore. It’s such a touchy subject. I’d love to believe in god, but I hate labeling him (her, it, whatever) as the christian god. Labels are bad. In the words of Richard Bach… “A name is a label. And as soon as there is a label, the ideas disappear and out comes label-worship and label-bashing and instead of living by a theme of ideas people begin dying for labels, and and the last thing you think the world needs is a new religion.” The closest thing I could accept to a belief in a god would be what Ego Tripping said
That seems to make much sense but of course, we’ll never truly know.
After reading all your posts lately made me thinkmaybe God does exist or he did at some point. Maybe life is a test 
Thats what i used to think before i lost my ego. I like reading your point of views and your opinons though 
Poll tax this, and poll tax that here in the UK.
Sorry couldn’t stop myself
I dont use labels i just refer that god is the god for the muslims jews and christians and i agree with whomever it was that said as soon as a label is put on said it was label worshipping.Your views are amazing and i liked to here more of em,if you wouldnt mind sharing em alex and umm… sorry i dont know your name the one who was making an alliance with alex
I was the one who said the quote about labels, but I must inform you that it wasn’t my words. Those words came from the great Richard Bach. I suggest you check out some of his books, namely Illusions, Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah, and One. He is amazing.
Thanks for the books i take it into consideration to read them when i get time(probably this summer)It is very obvius why you have your views because of such strict religion all over and around,amazing your sain still
Shinta of wui did a mistake
sorry big mistake…
maybe i can write a poem… umm… let me look… i think this is what this is for isnt it??
mmm… dosent matter,
clears throat
I’m just going to throw this one at you guys…
Ready?
Here it comes…
TOLERANCE
Thank you
bows
Here, check this out
Before America was assembled, we had a variety of colonies. The pilgrims that arrived were NOT christians. They were Puritans. These people basically either wanted to purify the Church of England (the non-separatists) or wanted to completely separate from the Church of England (the separatists). These people believed in an omnipotent and omnescient god, and that mankind is evil (born evil). They believed that people are predestined to go to heaven or hell.
So America was not founded on Christianity, end of story
(oh wait, but what about the founding fathers? Sorry, no dice).
Anyway, the government was implemented in order to enforce god’s law.
The church and state were very much intertwined. Town meetings were where all the politics went on. BUT, only the saints (those destined for heaven) could vote and partake in other activities. Of course at the same time, women couldn’t even own land. Dissenters weren’t appreciated and many were exiled for challenging this. As time passed, the religious structure was diluted (women could eventually own land if their husband died. Hence the whole “witch hunt” which wasn’t purely religious. It was also a way to get the land from widows… who were interestingly a major witch target). The colonies grew due to the fact that England pretty much let them govern themselves for a while.
Now let’s jump to the founding fathers.
Times were changing, ideas were introduced, and people were sooo used to the freedom they were given from England… that they craved more.
It is not correct to say that the founding fathers were Christians.
They were FAR from it. Most were diests and obsessed with a popular philosopher (John Locke - “life, liberty, and property”). The country was diverse and these leaders wanted to change things. Instead of having the country revolve around religion, let’s let the people decide for themselves.
And there we have the statute of religious freedoms, written by Jefferson.
It doesn’t matter how much you hate Christianity, it’s not going anywhere, no matter what you do about it. Unless you’re planning on committing your life to ending it, get in line and waste your time away. So toughen up and tolerate it. Religious freedom doesn’t mean that we should limit religion, it means that we have the right to express it in any way we want, which includes the choice to not express it at all.
This doesn’t mean that we should badmouth religion. If you want freedom, let people believe in what they want. There are other ways to encourage open-mindedness.
This whole “under god” and “in god we trust” argument is getting me pissed off.
Who the hell really cares?
Does it affect you in any way?
I seriously feel that people just want to stroke their precious egos and present to the world that they have a dissenting opinion.
If we want to live up to the words of the founding fathers, it doesn’t mean that we should mobilize against religion. Just let it be, stop complaining, and live through it.
Some people are more obsessed with actors than religion, their posters and ads are posted everywhere in the public, and I don’t see anyone going to the courts about it. Of course religion can get out of hand sometimes and extend over the barrier, and we need to definitely watch out for this. But other than that, why complain about such menial things?
The writing on dollars… the pledge…
Anyway, such things are too connected to tradition.
Bah, now I’m just rambling.
I just wanted to get some things out there.
Basically, just try to get this.
Instead of hating and complaining about things that we can’t change, let’s just be tolerant, as long as church vs state isn’t breeched.
Please note that this isn’t directed towards any of you guys… I’m just saying, in general…
the debate on saying god is really dumb there is no law saying you have to say the pledge of allegiance, so if you dont agree with it then just sit down and shut your mouth. as for court cases try not breaking the law, if your there for other reasons then you aren’t required to talk
true that it wasn’t founded on christianityand well that’s cool and i know what you was sayin in that big essay.Well umm i am done
NYC and LA are two of the most diverse places in the world, their are people of almost all religions. The pilgrims came to america for freedom of religion, to believe whatever anyone wanted to believe, and equally with none placed above another and none supressed or discrimated. I am no religion, I have never stood for the pledge of alligiance because I do not believe I should be forced to pledge my alligence to a nation that fears a god. The fact that they want to put the 10 commandments there is so out of control. If they let any other religion that wants something from their religion put there, then it would be fine, but just allowing for them to put the 10 commandments is not fair.
One fact that I haven’t read any one mention is that the phrase “under God” was ADDED to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954… it was not originally in there. The pledge was said for many years before that without ever uttering “under God.”
Personnally, I feel that it implies that you can’t be a patriotic American unless you profess a belief in a god, and that ticks me off. I say take that phrase out, and return the Pledge to the way it was.
But Bush and his cronies don’t want that done, because they don’t give a damn about everyone’s civil rights, they just want to force their own beliefs on others.
Yeah, republicans rolls eyes. Not really, just Bush. He is the biggest load of crap president, everyoen defends him with, well he had to be the president with the terrorist attacks and no one else would have handled it as good…he handled it good? If he gets re-elected this year I’m moving to canada once and for all.
Or perhaps becuase changing it is pretty much a waste of time, it means every form of the original has to be modified. That costs money.
You’ll move to Canada because he’s a Christian? Or because he handled the attacks poorly? If it’s the former, then please feel free to get out. If it’s the latter, then, again, feel free to get out.
Declaring Christianity as “bullshit” is typical; people talking about it’s lack of “reason”. I’m not here to preach the “you gotta have faith, man” stuff, but I would be interested to see how you defend your position of Christianity being irrational. Perhaps you lack the ability to comprehend Creation, or the Resurrection, or other events, and dismiss them as false. Heck, people who thought the world was round were viewed as pretty stupid 600 years ago.
Just my personal opinion, don’t feel like I’m trying to argue, I just feel strongly about people who casually dismiss any faith as ‘bullshit’.
nice to see the political discussion does not cease.
That’s it. You just pushed me over the edge. I’m going to begin writing a page that explains just why Christianity IS irrational. Not to attack your beliefs, it’s just that I’ve spent 10 years working on this problem and I’m better informed than most. I bet you haven’t even read the Bible… Anywho, I’ll post the address when it’s completed. For now, check out
That’s the King James Version of the Bible with annotations by skeptics, as apposed to the usual biased ones. Maybe these annotations are biased the other way, but it can’t hurt to look at somebody else’s point of view. And hey, they back up everything they say with related verses from the Bible.
I’ve seen that site before. Intriguing. Especially the footnotes explicitly mocking certain verses. Nice use of Monty Python references in certain Revelation footnotes.
By the way, I’ve read each and every book of the Bible. Paul’s letter to the Romans is my favorite book, followed closely by James. Thanks anyways.