does anyone here feel like the novadreamer and similar things are cheating? I dont know, it bugs me.
IMHO its not cheating. I mean, you could also call driving a car cheating, because you get faster to the place you want to go. Or flying in an airplane. Or using the train. Or the bus. Or or or …
If it helps you to have a lucid dream, use it. I would use it, if I had one 
No, I don´t feel like cheating
There are different ways, and the best things is, you can go several ways at once
I wrote some other text to explain my statement, but somehow I just can´t put it in words, so I´ll let it stand like this
i suppose cars would seem like cheating to all the people who walk places.
Yes!!! It bothers me somehow and I didn’t say it cuz I’m afraid that people would tell me, “Duh!”
Oh well… I guess it’s because my purpose of Lucid Dreaming is to achieve it through a true and cheatless technique. I dunno. 
I understand it’s designed to ASSIST people to achieve LDing… but… I just dislike that feeling as if it’s a cheater device. I just can’t help it if I have a feeling like that.
yes i agree. its like if you work hard for something and after a while, other people get it for free then you’d be upset (if that makes sense). Or maybe, its just that it isn’t pure way of getting in contact with yourself.
Ill just keep trying it “naturally” and try not to hate people who take ‘shortcuts’.
me too.
me like everyone… yes I do… talks to herself
I know totally what you’re saying. I just feel like lucid dreams are such a privelidge, that you should have to work for them, you know what I mean? I for one would be pretty mad if someone I knew got lucid dreams every night and I was stuck watching them just because they had enough cash to buy a Noavadreamer and I didn’t. Still now thinking about it … if I had a novadreamer I would exactly hesitate to use it … 
Well I own a NovaDreamer and to be honest I actually agree with Xplosive a bit. I feel it is cheating a little, in the sense that I may be cheating myself by not putting in as much energy as I should to become lucid by natural means. I would much prefer to become lucid by natural effort. However…I had the money to buy one and thought that if it can help me become lucid then I should try it. I will evaluate it by it’s results…if I find the results of using the Novadreamer to be really good, then of course this eases any guilty conscience I may have. But if the results are bad…(I started a thread in shortcuts to lucidity where I will note my findings periodically btw)
then I will follow my conscience and continue to try to become lucid by solely natural means. I don’t feel too bad about using it really though seeing as I had my first dozen or so LD’s by natural means…I am just curious more as to how useful the device may be. I had some good results the first couple of times I used it, but for the last few days now I have been sick as hell with the flu so I haven’t got to use it really. I am looking forward to using it again soon. To be honest there is still a lot of mental work that has to be done with the Novadreamer before you will start to recognise the cues it gives you while asleep. A lot of RC’s during the day. I do find it a cool device though, in the sense that here is a tool that “signals” to you whenever you enter REM sleep. I guess I just had to see how that worked for myself, or it would always have bugged me a little.
Another way I look at it too is if you are an athlete, say a skier or something, you would try different ski’s and clothes and googles, whatever to try and make you the best skier you could be. If something can give you an edge then I think it is wise to try it. As for whether or not the ND actually will give me an edge, time will tell… But of course one would ultimately rather be independant of any aids and able to achieve maximum potential solely by themselves…but often this isn’t a realistic proposition.
Anyways…
I will keep my thread on the ND updated as soon as I get back into using it again.
I don’t think that it’s cheating. I think it’s merely an aid, like writing the answers on the back of your hand in an exam is an aid. lol, nah - like getting a bus is an aid, rather than walking there. However, I’d be scared of using one… I dunno, they just seem kinda creepy!
How can this be cheating? It helps open your inner eye! Many religious people have done this in the past and we are sort of conserving their ways in a way.
In order for there to be cheating, there have to be rules.
If there are rules, then someone out there made up the rules.
If it seems like cheating to you, then perhaps you should find out where you got that idea and question your source. To my knowledge, there aren’t any world religions that ban lucid dreaming machines, and I’d be reluctant to acknowledge any lesser authority.
On a side note: Suppose you have a headache. Is aspirin cheating when you could just tough it out for the next few hours?
Harlequin
Let me tell you something, if I had the extra money to buy one, I would be “cheating” my ass off every night.
Maybe that’s just me. q=
It’s possible the NovaDreamer is valid as an introduction, but if in the end it becomes the only way you can LD, it could be counterproductive.
i think the dalai lama told laberge that he found it a very good idea. he said it wouldn’t require a second monk anymore to tell the dreamer every once in a while that he was dreaming if the machine could do the job just as well. so if the dalai lama doesn’t think it’s cheating it can’t be cheating…