You don’t need that much sleep before attempting a WILD. I usually only sleep 3 to 4 hours before waking up. The general rule is: the more sleep you get before you wake up, the more chance you have of going straight into a dream when you go back to bed.
It wouldn’t do me a lot of good getting 6 hours sleep, waking up, performing a WILD and then getting about 10 minutes of lucidity before I have to go to work. 
I simply can’t fall asleep when attempting WILD. Today I was really tired from workout, going to sleep late, stuff like that and I figured to take a nap at ~5pm and try a WILD. I spent 2.5 hours in bed in one single position and never fell alseep. My body, and especially my hands, felt numb and electric in a way, and once I even verified to make sure I wasn’t cutting blood flow. Sometimes I would feel a bit dizzy or as if the bed moved slightly, and other times very faint white imprints would form on my eyelids (sometimes they became purple too) but I don’t think this is anything close to hypnogogic imagery/hallucinations because I can sometines make this happen during the day by closing my eyes real tight; waves of white and purple flow outward like small puddles of water becoming smaller and smaller.
I tried making up stories, then I tried complete silence, then I even tried forgetting about WILD and left my mind to wonder off but I simply had no thoughts. My eyes felt really heavy and tired, and I was comfortable and very relaxed, but it’s as if reality had a grip on my mind and simply would let me fall asleep.
I got up and felt really tired and dizzy for a while, as I still do, and I can’t believe I wasted so much time trying to take a nap!
If anybody has any ideas about what to think about or what would loosen that grip on reality I would greatly appreciate and attempt, because I’ve exhausted all my ideas.
Pilot:
If you’re not used to going to sleep at 5 in the afternoon, then you will probably have a hard time doing so (as you found out).
Afternoon naps are generally only possible if you are really tired. Otherwise, your body sees no reason to break it’s usual sleeping routine. Some people (including on this forum) have actually claimed a high rate of success when going to bed extremely tired. The theory is that when you are this tired, your body will practically ‘crash’ the moment you get into a comfortabe position, allowing you to keep your mind focused without over-doing it.
In your case though, thinking about LDs for 2.5 hours while trying to get to sleep is SURELY a great way to induce a MILD later that night 
I guess you’re right about the sleeping routine, I don’t often nap because I wake up tired and I fall asleep harder at night. I guess I only have one time to try WILD, that’s WBTB.
I don’t understand how going to sleep very tired will help. I mean during a nap yea, but at night the only way it helps is when doing MILD I guess.
I was wondering; if you go to sleep at night, and you are really tired, would you normally have longer deep sleep periods? I’m still wondering why sometimes I have good dream recall while other times I don’t have any. Also, if you go through a day without doing much involving thoughts or emotions, would you dream less?
I don’t think it would matter how much stimulus you encounter during the day. During the period of sleep that allows dreaming, you are constantly dreaming, about absolutely anything. I doubt your mind is going to run out of things to dream about and simply stop.
However, a number of things determine how well you can recall them in the morning.
I’m having trouble with the WILD. It worked its way up to being my prefered method because the OBE-like sensations are just amazing. I’ve had only one WILD out of my 6 LD, and I always attempt variations of WBTB and WILD every single night.
My sleeping schedule is deranged because of something, possibly MILD, and I have been getting poor dream recall and light sleep. I also wake up very tired and frustrated many times. Sometimes I attempt WBTB but never fall back asleep. If I give up on WILD after WBTB I often end up staying a few hours in bed without sleep, and I get up feeling like I slept 5 hours.
The main problem is if I wake up too early in the night, I fall asleep unconsciously (deep sleep I think), and if too early I stay awake. Because of this I don’t get much of a chance at WILD.
Well to make this short: How could I fit more WBTB WILD attempts within one night? How much time after falling asleep should I set my alarm for the first WBTB?
Pilot:
I find that WILD works more reliably after pretty much the entire nights sleep. For me, it’s easy to get back to sleep even after a full night’s worth. For example, on friday night I slept 9 hours, then decided to simply lay there in bed. As usual, I was back asleep in no time - even though I had just had more than enough sleep.
I always just assumed that everyone was like that, and could get back to sleep with relative ease within 10 or so minutes of waking up. Also, I believe that WILD (And any other form of LD induction) works best when you sleep lightly. From experience it just seems to me that it’s significantly easier to become lucid when you are not in deep sleep.
I guess if you have trouble getting back to sleep it may not work so well leaving it too late in the morning. I actually used to use WILD after as little as 3 hours sleep, and it still occasionally worked. I guess you just have to find a time that works for you.
So 3 hours worked, I’ll give it a try tonight. I’ll stay awake for 30 minutes browsing this forum as my WBTB. I’ll also attempt a second WBTB after 6 hours of total sleep and I’ll stay up ~15 min. I’ve also decided to be awakened by low-volume radio ‘noise’ instead of a radio station (I fear the actual alarm going off and it’s really loud). I think Radio talk or music might distract my intention to remember the dream. I’ll focus on WILD, and I’ll do a bit of MILD before going to sleep. Successful results will be posted on my Dream Journal.
Well thanks for your help, Atheist. If only I could fall asleep in 10 minutes…
Beside the different approaches for a wild u can indeed also look at the different time tables according to your biorhythm…
The first 5 hours of your sleep your melatonin level in your blood is the highest…the first 2 hours really at peak…so 4 some ppl it could indeed be that between the first 2 and 5 hours of their sleep a wild would be the easiest…
For me in the morning or at midday works just fine…even before sleeping at night.
You can WILD before bedtime? How do you manage with deep-sleep? I think part of my WILD failures are because I slip into delta sleep where I am unconscious. Is this true? Is it possible to be conscious in delta sleep? Some people claim they achieve it, but it’s just very hard (I know there was a post on this but I can’t find it).
I actually had a LD, but unfortunately it was a DILD and not a WILD. I’m guessing the biorhythm is the biological clock… I see what you mean by working with it. I’ve decided to keep a regular schedule with waking at 3am with the alarm, and then after a few days I’ll set the alarm for 4am. I’m thinking since I will be used to waking at 3am, given that I am so tired and most likely in a REM period, I’ll have a brief awakening, hopfully leading to a DILD. Thanks for the suggestion.
If it were in fact possible to initiate a WILD when you first fall asleep at night, then I imagine it would require some HUGE changes to your sleeping habbits. In fact, as far as I can see it would require one of two things. Either you could eventually train yourself to become conscious while your in deep sleep (very, very unlikely) or, you would somehow need to eliminate the process of deep sleep altogether.
I don’t like to go around doubting things when it comes to lucid dreaming and mind control, but I seriously don’t see anyone but the most deciplined Tibetan Monk at no less than 50 years old successfully doing this.
Pilot:
I’d recommed getting as much sleep as you can before trying WILD, yet while still allowing adequate time to return to sleep (should you encounter any difficulty in doing so). I like your idea about training yourself to wake at 3, then removing the alarm and relying on your internal clock to give your coniscous mind a small prod.
However, (and I don’t mean to remove any of your hope) a persons internal clock is an extremely efficient and accurate alarm clock in itself. It’s actually quite extaordinary just how well it seems to keep track of time once you train it. People who work 9 till 5 for a while find themselves waking up at EXACTLY the same time as their alarm was set for even on days when it was disabled. It’s a very creative idea though, and I hope it works for you.
My general philosophy is that lucid dreaming is pretty much only possible when you are not in deep sleep. My own experience provided me with enough evidence to suggest that the conscious mind is only capable of taking control when you are sleeping lightly. Gook luck with whatever you try - it’s bound to work as long as you don’t give up.
Hi Pilot…if i do a wild before sleeping i can not do a wild tech were u lose your consciousness a long the way…like ppl do when they do the count wild…because then at some point u fall a sleep and before bedtime these kind of wilds will not succeed because of your melatonin/deep sleep…infact u will not even have enough rem to get lucid…just delta…
So how can i do it then…
Well i use a mix from selfhypnosis and meditation and i dont lose consciousness on the way…i really go down into sleep (trance meditation)and know every level i go by…the level just before dream stage is difficult…i have this all written down on this forum before…must still be here!
But ok a very short version…
when i was in my begin twenties i did kungfu and we had meditation in those lessons to…standing meditation…
i thought it would be much more easy to do this laying on my bed…
And so i did, at 24:00 when it was dark and silent…i lay on my bed hands on my plexus solaris…i made my awareness and breathing as one as i was taught at my kung fu lessons and my head i just let fall a sleep…like as if i was acting…i tried to fall a sleep…so my head (consciousness) was totally passive and my awareness was just focussed at breathing at the plexus solaris (thats a very important nerve centre that has connections to the brainstem) and so after half an hour i didnt feel my body parts and my consciousness was in a sort of light grey mist…sort of void…then after a hour (light grey was now dark grey void close to black) i saw in the middle of my consciousness an orange fractal moving
it get slowly bigger and bigger and at a certain point i could c a dream inside…at this point i was very difficult to stay empty…the fractal was now a sort of orange window and i could enter it with my consciousness and i was in a dream…a lucid dream…this was already half an hour later from when i began to c the orange fractal…
Then i found out that theta waves are very important in rem sleep and also in hypnosis…i did already selfhypnosis…
Then not long after that i mixed selfhypnosis tech with meditation and i created the best of both worlds…i call trance meditation…
It was very addicting to do these sessions at night and the freedom was so great of the trance and the wild that it took most of the night…
Then i came up on the idea why not do this inside a ld…
I decided to try in my next ld i had, my trance meditation and self hypnosis…
I did…and it was superb…what took me normally between 1 to 2 hours now took only 5 seconds to be in a deep trance…witch proofs 4 me that dreaming and hypnosis are sister and brother of eachother…both levels of pure association…
And with the use of selfhypnosis in a lucid dream i found out i could easely go deeper in sleep and enter the deep sleep stage and stay lucid…
I had an eeg machine for about 10 years and it was connected to my computer to registrate it all…
In the deep sleep u have no visuals or sound…just a black empty void and its much much harder to instant awake from this level then from rem sleep…well thats it in short.
I now the far east is right because i have been there myself…yes u can stay lucid even in the deep sleep…but u need talent and meditation and selfhypnosis experience…
In rem witch is close to waking u dream in colour and can easy do instant wake up.
In non rem its a mix from delta and theta waves and here u dream black and white and instant wake up is already much harder…
In deep sleep pure delta…all is black and instant wake up is really hard!
(When u do wild before u are in dream level u go through a light grey void and at the level just before dreaming dark grey void…still this is not the real black void u experience in delta…but i think an unexperienced person could easely think so.)
Yes Atheist it is possible to have consciousness in the delta deep sleep stage…the far east is right about this!
In the deep sleep stage your visual cortex is ofline thats why u have no visuals here…it fun to try and use association here and still u c nothing…lol
also no dreambody here…just eyes of consciousness…a black endless void…i talked with Stephen laberge about this and i told him u could signal with breathing…fast…slow…He said he had thought of the same thing.
Was the one and only time I spoke with him…he mailed me about a posting on his forum about phenylalanine and inducing lucid dreams.
It seems whenever I try to do a WILD, I just end up getting really close over and over again, before finally getting bored and falling asleep. I will sit there for a few moments saying something, 1 - ‘catchphrase1’ - 2 - ‘catchphrase2’ - 3… Then I my vision appears to be going darker and darker and even still darker closing to a pin of pure black, and I get this falling feeling, my pulse quickens and within a few seconds it all starts to reverse… once I calm down again it all happens again, I can usually only get it to do that twice… then I give up.
Any ideas?
John C.
John:
This happens to most people because they tend to focus on what they are feeling rather than entering a dream. At the point where everything goes dark, and you can feel a tingling all through your body you need to really concentrate on a scene in your imagination. Obviously, it’s not easy if you’re inexperienced. It’s hard to ignore the strange sensations you are feeling and often you’ll get too excited.
You need to really focus on what you are seeing in your imagination. Try to really feel where you are, and see all the little details in the scene. If you keep busy by doing this, you won’t notice yourself actually falling asleep until suddenly you’re in a dream. Clearly it’s not as easy as I may make it sound, but with practise you’ll get there.
Keey trying 
Jeff: That is amazing! I always wondered what would happen if you meditate within a LD. You must be real dedicated and disciplined to meditate for 2 hours. You could write a book about your method. I would read it for sure. Well my question; does it make a difference at what age you start to practice meditation and does age affect performance?
Atheist, I have been partially successful with my method of setting the bio-clock to awake me briefly, but I haven’t exactly kept up with my schedule. During school I managed to fully awake minutes before the alarm would go off, and this is to prove the accuracy of it. It also helps to have a real loud and annoying alarm, because when I changed it to radio I would sleep through the first 10 minutes of news and wake up fully up-to date…come to think of it, maybe this is what I need to use to set my bio-clock. I usually anticipate that noise going off and I keep it in mind while going to sleep. However, I don’t always have the willpower to attempt this every night, bringing me to my next question;
does WILD only work with WBTB or can I actually try it after a brief awakening? Every attempt so far I drifted off to sleep unconsciously. I either lost concentration, or I became frustrated unable to fall asleep due to WILD. Out of the few WBTB attemts, I did have one WILD. Any suggestions?
Pilot:
You certainly can be successful with WILD after a brief awakening. In fact, I usually only stay awake for up to 10 minutes before going back to sleep, and I rarely get out of bed. This may not suit some people though, as it’s usually extremely easy to fall asleep after just waking up. So easy in fact, that you can often be unconscious before you even remember to try WILD.
To be honest, if I had the time I’d probably try a lengthy WBTB each night, with a half-hour period of reading “Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming” (Which I finally got 
) before going back to sleep. This has the effect of filling the mind with thoughts of Lucid Dreaming, which you have a good chance of dreaming about upon returning to sleep.
Come to think of it, I probably could find time to try this now. We have just finished a rather large project at work, so that means I can actually return to the usual human sleeping times. I’ll let you know how it goes.
um aithiest,…henry ford said that (your signature quote)
He did? Better fix that up then. Thanks ben.