For any other United Kingdom residents, there is a program on tonight at 9pm on BBC2 about Near Death Experiences.
If anyone else happens to watch it too, I wonder what you make of what they say, and maybe we can discuss it here. Also, anybody who doesn’t get to see it, what do you think about Near Death Experiences?
Are they our final OBE? Or are they simply vivid experiences caused by the trauma of the body going through the process of dying. What do you think?
Me? I’m really not sure, but I’m very interested to watch the program to see what they say.
i’m not really sure, but i think one of the possibilities is that they are APs or OBEs caused to prevent serious mental trauma.
In some cases i have read about the people where in bad seanrios. One guy was blown up by a land mine or a grenade in WW2. One woman was in a road accident.
I think in both cases servere mental trauma could have killed them (particularly the guy huis arm was blown off) and i think that the OBE/AP resulted to help them and of course while there were having this near death experience would feel no pain until they were back in their bodies.
Yeah, so even if it doesn’t prove that life goes on after death, it could still be a genuine OBE situation where you are being protected from the trauma of the dying process.
What I’m saying is, the OBE style experience could still be genuine (if indeed OBEs are real - discussed in another thread in this forum), yet they could still end when the body finally dies, because they could simply serve the function of making things more pleasant.
But then saying that, if that was true, why would nature care how we felt if we were on our way out? OR, maybe it’s an extreme reflex action caused by the extreme survival situation, nature hoping upon hope that if we are shielded from the true horror then eventually we might pull through?
or maybe its just extreme shock to an umpleasant situation and nothing more than an hilusination… ahh english classes who needs em i can speel just great lol
Imagine if the NDE was similar to a dream. Everything we believe in, conditioned to know and expect, perhaps subconsciously, would come true. Not to offend anyone or imply anything regarding the afterlife, just a thought of mine.
TV’s got a lot of propaganda anyways. I’d say pick up a book and read about it there instead.
In dreams we see because our visual cortex is active.
If you take lsd or other strong hallucinogens you hallucinate because your visual cortex is active.
In a NDE your visual cortex is ofline…not active…So how do you see your hallucinations? That is still not answered by science…
I can go lucid in deep sleep stage…In deep sleep stage your visual cortex is also off’line. I did experiments in trying to visualize then, with pure suggestion, like in lucid dreams! Well all stayed black! No visuals how ever or how hard i tried! You cant hallucinate with your visual cortex off line!
So the big question is how does a person see in a NDE?
I have been below deep sleep, at the beginning of a NDE all went different again…different as well from dreaming as from deep sleep…and i had my consciousness because i was lucid. And i can tell it aint no dream or hallucination, thats for sure. For me just a level of consciousness.
Dont know if NDE ppl have been yet under a pet scan while going through such an experience, because an eeg for sure is not sensitive enough to investigate this
Yes it is Ed! I thought i tell something about it because most ppl, even science ppl, dont often think about this perspective of a NDE.
Without your visual cortex no hallucinations. So you cant simply say ppl with a nde hallucinate because of enorphins or lack of oxygen!
You cant even make it logic that ppl like me can be lucid in that stage because also your cortex is offline to…it is strange I admit that…but I think
you should only have an explanation when you can proof it or else just be honest and say…ok this we dont know yet!
I just say for myself i dont understand this phenomenon yet…
I saw the TV show that Ed Case mentioned and one of the theories was that NDEs don’t actually occur when the brain is ‘offline’, but the memory of them is implanted into the mind at the moment the brain comes back online.
Of course to prove otherwise they then wanted reports of NDEs in which the person came out of their body and could report something that occurred during the time they were offline. I seem to remember the show had found one example but obviously you’d need a lot more to prove anything beyond doubt.
One thing that this program did say, is that there was this scientist who had somehow discovered some kind of active matter within the brain that is at a smaller level than the brain cells. I can’t remember what he called it, or what it is exactly, but it seamed to suggest that the mind can exist seperate from the physical brain, but at this really small atomic level or something.
He was saying that he thinks that this matter at a very small level or whatever, can still be active when the conventionally understood physical aspect of the brain is not active, therefore showing no readings on any medical devices or whatever.
I didn’t completely understand it really, but basically it seamed to be the beginning of a possible scientific explanation of the mind as seperate from the brain.
Yeah, I think he was talking about a ‘sea’ of information at a quantum level which bleeds out of the brain at death. I only half grasped what he was saying and wished the show had spent more time on an explantion of the theory.
I just checked on the net and found some stuff about Penrose and Hameroff’s ‘Quantum Brain’ which is what the show was talking about. Most of the information I found was very deep theory and not specifically applied to NDEs but you might find it interesting.
Just don’t put ‘Penrose NDE’ into a search engine or it’ll ask you if you really wanted to search for ‘Penrose Nude’
Yeah because of the visual cortex they dont have a choise!
They have to say its when a person gets his eeg back, and the brain comes back online!
But then the visual cortex and the hippocampus (memory part of brain) have to be quite active…
To implant memories our brain uses rem sleep and then our memory neurotransmitter (acetylcholine)is a 100 fold active then when awake…and all that to implant memories!
So again…if so, its easy to c on a petscan or even an eeg…rem sleep gives theta waves! Our memory part of brain the hippocampus works at theta wave frequency. And the implant of memories makes the brain very active…So, well it should be proven already by science. But its not because they dont have found this at all. Just speculation…and because this is so easy to check, why they didnt make this idea solid then?!
So its just an idea…and for me even less…just an excuse…because this idea is so easy to proof! Why dont they then?
Science better admit they dont yet have a clue. Science is not only to state what we do know…But also what we dont know!
