For all that think OBEs are real part II

About the card thing the idea of it is to identify a card that your subconscious mind couldn’t possibly know. If your extremely carefull about not seeing the other side of the card there is no way your subconscious will know what it is. About predicting it from the position in the deck that is highly unlikely if it’s shuffled well several times without looking at any of the other cards but to aviod anything like that it’s best to have a friend carefully shuffle and place the card so there is no way for you to see it. I did this one a few times which is hard but I had a friend set the card up in the next room which I didn’t access to be sure that I had no way of knowing the other side of the card. The point is I had no possible way of knowing what that card was in the physical I didn’t even see the deck which was shuffled and that’s how it should be setup.

With flying to another area you do it with a place that you couldn’t have been to where there is no question about that. If you have doubts about a place in your city go to a different city that you have never seen for sure. It’s also a good idea to try going into a public building that you have never been in then go back the next day. Anyone can find a place that they have never seen before it’s not possible for your subconscious mind to know what every place around you looks like then for it to miracuously recall the location in detail when you dream it.

One more thing you make it sound like the subconscious can perceive everything accurately, just saying if it was real you’re making it look like it’s impossible to test because the subconscious can supposedly figure this all out. If you set it up well so your mind has no possible way of seeing or guessing something remote then there is no way that the information about it will be in your subconscious mind.

I was atheist before I started obe’ing and proving it to myself so I am very skeptical about this and extremely thorough and careful when I test it myself. I have identified many things that I couldn’t have possibly perceived without being separate from my physical body but I’m not trying to convince people of my experiences I’m just trying to suggest ways that they can test it first hand. If people test these sort things while setting it up carefully that should be enough proof for them. Whether science thinks it’s proven or disproved those are only words the only way for people to know is to open up there minds and try these types of experiments themselves because seeing is believing while actual experience always beats out those words and personal opinions.

You just explained exactly WHY I don’t think it’s possible. Unfortunately for most people, seeing IS believing. This is a sad reality, because much of what you see in fact does NOT originate from the physical world. People are quicker to attribute visions of future events or alternate situation outcomes to spiritual insight, and never mere subconscious hallucinations. It’s dangerous, and it’s degrading.

You’ve already demonstrated that you have absolutely NO idea what the mind is capable of, so I’m not going to bother trying to change your opinion. Some people accept the all-answering, perfect solution to any uncertainty and call it spirituality. Others search for the facts, and eventually find them. We can’t always see how something works straight away, but eventually (thus far) everything always falls into a logical and reasonable compliment to existing physical parameters.

For example, it’s possible (in theory) that some of the OBE experiments were actually demonstrations of telepathy, where the subject was experiencing a lucid dream using information available from the thoughts emitted from the nearby experimenters to obtain information about the objective room. It’s not sound, but at least it’s plausible. Although, considering the number of participants to each of those experiments that remain skeptical even after a demonstration, I’m certain there is more to it that we’re not being told. Quite simply, there would be nothing to debate if that quote of yours from the ‘OBEs’ thread was unquestionably true. OBE would be fact, spirituality (and by inheritance religion) would be globally accepted. But they’re not - so I suspect that report was highly exaggerated to look better on paper.

In this we are silencing the silence
such a sound of sweetness
In this moment of silence
it is such a distintive sound

Enjoy!

Im so excited about this topic I couldnt wait to read all the replies to post my own. Though I have no way to prove it, I have no doubt that O.B.Es are real for the simple fact that me and my sister a had simultaneous O.B.E. as kids. Me and my sister were watching a miniseries by Shirley McClaine on t.v. called out on on a limb some 15 years ago or so. I dont remember every single detail about the experience because it was so long ago. But I do remember sitting indian style on the floor in a dark living room when we seemed to float upwards through the ceiling and into the night sky. As I noticed my house getting smaller and smaller in the distance I noticed a thin thread that seemed to be attached to my house. But as we rose higher I started to grow fearful of not being able to get back home and before I knew it I was back sitting in front of the T.V.

Over time time I seemed to block out the events of that night until recently
when my research on the subject made me realize exactcly what happened that night. Niether one of us were sleep when this happened so I know that lucid dreaming isn`t the only way to have an O.B.E., So I remain hopefull that I will reach this state again one way or the other.

The first thing I would do if I got an OOB experience would be look at my alarm clock, remember the time, look away, look again, remember the time, and when I wake up I look at the clock to see if the time in the OOB was correctly compared to IRL time. Is that a good test to see if the OOB is real?

Okay, I got some examples of AP and you can judge yourself.

OBE=AP I believe

My first two APs happened like lucid dreams. I was quite interested in In Ap, but was trying to get LD downpat before going into it deeply. I researched it alot and got alot of info from a friend who did it naturally.
Well anyway, I was in my bed(sorta of) and “woke” up. I decided to test if this was a dream and I noticed that it felt like RL before I even touch the lamp(touch activated). It didn’t work, and I can’t remember if my hand hit it or went through it, but I was floating the next moment above my body. I thought this was a lucid dream due to the light check and it was definately REAL fealling, I noticed everything in the room seemed different and was sorta darkened, I felt that darkness was collapsing on me. I soon Woke up and decided to try to re-enter the same dream(I forgot the acronym ). I was in the same situation and was beginning to feel the same way with everying darkening out. I decided that would spin around to keep the "dream afloat. It’s work for me before but in this case, It DID absolutely nothing. I also saw my body below me while spinning(which later led me to question if this was a LD). When I woke up I felt vibrations all over my body.

This could have been a lucid dream or a AP, but the one thing that brings me to believe this might have been a AP, is that The spinning trick to keep dreams afloat did absolutely nothing(it seemed to actually be counter effective) and the vibrations afterwards. I heard that in AP, if you get far away from your body, you could get sucked back in. Well I didn’t really move away since I was too amazed by what I was doing.

Second, my friend happens to be a Natural LD and AP person. I’ve checked up what she said and it checked out. Plus she was quite uncomfortable talking about it and it would be quite hard to fake her face expressions(she eventually got more comfortable). Well anyway, she pretty much explained nearly everything about AP(LD she knew too, but since she did it naturally, she didn’t know how to teach me it). As for her AP actually influences real life, she could go to something called the akashic records while on the AP and look up the future or past. She told me about 2 encounters with the Akashic records which turned out to be true the next day. Okay, it relies on trust, but given how she knew her stuff completely and was able to explain all the dimensions to me I think could give her the benefit of a doubt.

Personally I think they are real or at least something different from LDs. If they were a regular LD but just different, wouldn’t exprienced LD folk be able to get out of the AP senario and do other stuff?

While in the library, I happened to come across a paraphsycology encyclopedia and under the section dealing with AP, it gave a few tests done to prove it. One involved setting off some Highly senstive motion dectetors, another invovled using a Ap to calm a cat down miles away and stop it from purring, and one invovled the ol’ come back with the info on this card miles away. All the tests Succeeded, and btw using a card to determine if AP is real doesn’t work depedning on how long the card is there. I heard that the reason why some things appear weird or new things appear while AP, is due to previous Mental “residue”. If a couch was in the same place for 20 years and later moved. While AP’ing, you could see the couch still there due to everyone being used to it being there. As for new items, they don’t show up too clearly.

Personally, I find the spinning technique to be a very efficient method of waking up prematurely, or at least losing the lucidity. I’ve said it before, and I’ll certainly say it again - the spinning technique is definitely not for everyone.

In addition to that, the rest of the dream seemed (to me, at least) like a classic lucid dream. The environment was untrue to real life (“Astral distortion?” not likely), and attempts to interact with the world proved unpredictable, and unrealistic.

It might just be me, but surely an actual AP/OBE would provide you with a perfectly clear and realistic view of the world - taking into account item positions and light levels. What you describe, sounds like something straight from the imagination.

I should have explained it alitle bit more detailed.
Actually it was just like my room, but a little muddy vision-wise(then again my room is dark at night and it was dark during this Dream or OBE). If it was a lucid dream, it would be a very high quality lucid dream, Everything was in it’s place and it just ended really fast. Also it ended by the means of a AP ended and not a normal lucid dream ending. I was simply recollecting and thinking of how I got here, followed by a slow blackout 10 seconds later. I sorta felt fearful I can imagine this could end a lucid dream, But since I jumped back in and prepared myself to not be afraid or too jumpy, there really isn’'t any reason the dream would end the same way as before(I was using lucid dreams techniques becuase I thought I was lucid dreaming). Only thing I can imagine ending a dream like that would be being too close to the body imediatly after AP. As for the spinning technique, I used it more than once and it’s worked great before. Can it’s effectiveness change and lessen in different dreams?

That’s an interesting question. I’ve never really had success with it, but then, I don’t do it when the LD is already high level. I usually only resort to methods like this when I sense everything coming to an end. Perhaps it works differently depending on the dream.

It may surprise some people, but the brain is actually a very extraordinary device. At all times, it contains a very accurate map of your surroundings. This is how people can do seemingly anything when they sleepwalk - simply because their internal map is so extremely accurate and detailed. We can also see this when lucid dreaming, particularly when you find yourself in a familiar environment that you can compare to the RL version.

Atheist, it is obvious to me and to you that running circles around the issue will not prove or disprove anything. If the world or whoever claims they are real it will not make a difference yet again to me or to you. Truth seekers alike, I propose you get to the point and verify it for yourself with purpose to either prove or disprove the nature of OBEs. The best way to do is involves giving it a completely fair set of trials. I believe you are talented enough to achieve this out of body state and complete clarity of mind when beyond the senses to conduct a specific test; anything that will satisfy, for yourself, a knowledge beyond the subconscious, logic, and the senses which can be verified right upon waking while keeping probability to a minimum. There are plenty of methods for inducing an OBE and the vibrational state, and you are well aware of what LDs feel like so aim not for a dream or WILD experiment but of one that feels most like an experience out of the body. If you must, read Astral Dynamics to know exactly what to achieve and how, to conduct the test in. Remember, giving it a most fair experiment will bring you closer to the truth for yourself, whatever that may be.

Hello, I’m Technodreamer.

I followed the steps on https://www.psychics.co.uk/astraltravel/obeexperiment.html I started to feel my eys were sort of twitching. I saw some white light, even though my eyes were closed. It wasn’t very purple tinted, as some OBEers sugest. I wasn’t sure what to do next. I just sat there focusing on the light and imagining my body lifting away from my physical body. Do I have to wait or should I try move my arm.

I felt as though I could lift my arm out as though completely weight less. Id didn’t hear noises either. I’m I paranoide or am I on the right track?

Technodreamer

Hi, I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this but it seems to be the closest thing. My apologies if I’m in the wrong place.
I just wanted some thoughts on the following:
A few years ago I had my first dream in which I seem to either be whooshing around, or feel something whooshing around near me in the dream. This very first dream was quite a scary one. In the next, I was flying low over the Black hills of Dakota (at least that’s what my dream told me they were), no body, just energy flying…
Then in more recent times, perhaps for a year or so, I would now and again dream that I had gone into my grandad’s house and was whooshing, usually quite violently or very energetically, around his house though I never whooshed upstairs as far as I can remember. I know it was me doing the whooshing though I was… how can I describe it??.. just a sort of straw/ yellow light coloured mass of something… energy, no definite form…
At first these dreams scared me a little but then I just seemed to accept them.
Oddly enough, I haven’t had them since my grandad passed on and the only dream I’ve had in which I’ve entered his house again was completely different… I entered as me, and walked into the living room only to find my uncle sitting by the fireplace peacefully. though he didn’t speak I knew he was at peace.
I should point out that this uncle had a very unhappy, turbulent life and had passed on the year before my grandad did.
Any thoughts anyone on the whooshing thing??

my guesses bubobubo is that you’re perhaps APing or that your dream flights are symbolic of your AP activities, or a way for your subconscious to symbolize the freedom of flight outside the bounds of the body.

Well, it seems there might be some scientific proof of other dimensions that might surface. Considering AP allows you to travel to other dimensions(according to what I’ve read and heard from other AP persons I know) this definately helps support the argument.

Chicago Sun Times

The Linear Collider being proposed for Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory near Batavia could help solve a long-standing cosmic mystery involving “dark matter.”

There’s not enough visible stuff in the universe – stars, galaxies and the like – to account for all the apparent gravity. So scientists calculate that about 85 percent of the matter in the universe is dark matter.

Scientists previously proposed that dark matter consists of objects invisible to telescopes, such as dim stars, big planets and black holes. But those theories haven’t panned out, said Fermilab physicist Joe Lykken.

The thinking now is that dark matter consists of subatomic particles zipping around the universe in vast numbers.

One such candidate, Lykken said, is the neutralino, a particle about 100 times heavier than a proton. (For those keeping track, neutralinos would be similar to neutrinos, particles that have little or no mass. Like neutrinos, neutralinos would have no electric charge and wouldn’t interact with ordinary matter.)

It’s theorized that there are about 1,000 neutralinos in every quart of space. As you read this, thousands of neutralinos are shooting right through you. Add them all up, and you’ve got your dark matter, the theory goes. No one has ever seen a neutralino, but, if it exists, it might show up in the linear collider, scientists say.

Another dark matter candidate is the so-called LKP particle. Finding this guy would be a double whammy. In addition to solving the dark matter mystery, the LKP particle could provide evidence for a mind-bending theory that predicts the universe has 10 dimensions: the three dimensions we perceive, plus seven hidden dimensions.

Fermi lab is near where I live, I almost got a job there too in a summer program to educate minorities. Hopefully they get the new accelerator.

I might be missing something, but how does the addition of these new particles in our current dimension prove anything about astral travel? The majority of your post was about these hidden particles, called “neutralinos”, which lack electrons and therefore don’t interact with ordinary matter. None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. Then at the last second, you introduce this ‘LKP’ particle, and without describing what it actually is, or how it relates to the rest of your post, you claim that it allows for the existence of 7 additional dimensions. Why 7? Why not 2? Why any at all?

Can you provide a link?

https://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dark06.html

Here’s the link, I’m don’t really know much about it either but I figured it was relevant.

MM its proven already last year that neutrino’s really have mass!

And also is proven now that all galaxies and milkyways have giant blackholes at there centre so add those up and maybe u got all missing matter u need. further the universe is expanding and that also will absorb wavelenghts and there for energy…and energy has mass!

Jeff

Wow you really know about that stuff jeff

I thought the article was interesting becuase it invovled other dimensions. Heck I know anything about them. I never took pyhsics in HS, took horticulture instead

EDIT: the bold part of my post is a part of the article, I just put it iin bold to poin attention to it.

I’m interested in learning more about OBE. Is there a site out there simmilar to this one that could aid me?